Sonic Forces Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Blue Blood, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. I feel exactly the same way, I've never really gelled with a 3D Sonic game after Adventure because of this.

    Proper momentum based physics (good enough to not have a homing attack) with the current third person perspective would be golden!

    It must be possible.
  2. Aerosol


    FML and FU2 Moderator
    Not where I want to be.
    Sonic (?): Coming summer of 2055...?
    Looks like they're making another series of set-pieces game. I mean this is probably the first level but...

    Guess I'll just tune out myself for now.
  3. Master Emerald

    Master Emerald

    A green crystal Member
    Is it just me or the Ring collection sounds weird? Mainly obtained in a chain sound really awkward!
  4. AutiMatic


    I feel somewhat optimistic about the game. It looks gorgeous. Love the art style. The CG-esq homing attack animations are pleasing. It's just a demo, so not much can be said. However, I'm not too fond of wisps being included, as I don't consider them as "power ups" per say, but are level gimmicks. When I think of power ups, I think of like the mushrooms, fire flower, or various suits in Mario allowing for abilities and perks to be used at the discretion of the player anytime in a level, as opposed to context of the level design validating usefulness/function. You know, kinda like the elemental shields, or speed shoes, or invincibility?

    Sonic already has the perfect base ingredients for more competent gameplay/level design if you take them from previous games and execute or apply them effectively. Drill wisp? Why? Knuckles can drill. Let drill areas be places only he may access instead of Sonic. You include another playable character and nullify useless gimmicky "power ups" by designing a level with route exclusivity (adding replay value). And that's just an example of concept (executed wonderfully in S3&K btw).

    "Adventure" style gameplay is the prototype for Boost gameplay. Modern Sonic boost style gameplay IS Adventure style at its core. From the homing attack, to rail grinding, to the light speed dash. Granted, they sacrificed spindash for boost, added quick step, hurdles, and drift to accommodate level design, add some stomp, and sliding—which can be replaced by bounce and somersault/rolling respectively. The only fundamental difference between the 2 is spindash vs boost and how the levels are designed to function around them. Sonic Adventure 1 is the closest 3D interpretation of classic physics. I refer to classic physics as "Momentum based roller ball physics" that incorporate gravity and inertia with momentum/acceleration accumulation, and precision button presses and timing.

    Example: Sonic 1 Marble Zone. The slopes in the beginning portion of the stage. If you're rolling from the highest point of the slope at a decent speed, then proceed to jump when the hill curves downward, Sonic will be flung from that angle with more momentum if timed the jump right in proportion to the speed you were going at. Any jump made by Sonic from a rolled state is uncontrollable by the player (only jump height, not air acceleration or momentum). This factor is a classic physics rule. This same concept is applied while running, as running downhill offers more speed than on a flat surface, and jumping from a running state offers full control of that jump in the same sloped instance. Also, the very same concept applies to slopes, curves, ramps, declines, half pipes, etc wherever they are found in the classic games and their levels. This rule is also why Sonic 4 fails and why Classic Sonic fails in Generations at times.

    Example 2: SA 1 Windy Valley. On the winding track parts, after the tornado portion of the level, if you spindash/roll down those hills, the speed you'll move at is noticeably faster than running downhill, but harder to control in ball state and are more susceptible to hitting the guard rails and uncurling, or skipping off the track and being sent flying into the air (if you're on the peak of the hill section before slope occurs). The irony, is that performing a jump from a downward hill movement, does NOT offer Sonic a boost in speed as it would in classic scenarios due to gravity incorporation (though performing snowboarding tricks via Ice Cap zone provide desired effect). However, a spindash-jump up an incline, still functions the same as in classic scenarios. Spindash up a slanted surface and jump at the top of the surface and you'll jump higher than usual...abnormally higher. This is evident in the classic games too, however you can control a "rolling jump" on Sonic Adventure games, and not in the classic games, and even throw a homing attack for an aerial push at any moment.

    Example 3: Sonic Unleashed Chun-Nan (DLC). There's a stage that says you have to complete like...3 or 5 laps, but the whole stage takes place in 2.5D. As you make laps, you come across downward hills where you approach from the top, as usual, and there's spikes and balloons or a spring at the base, or both. If you jump at the peak of the hill while boosting, before Sonic is headed down the slope, he is flung across at a ridiculous speed leading him directly to the QTE launcher. The level design is intended for such an instance as there is a QTE button launcher that isn't accessible unless you take the slope all the way down and traverse beyond the hazards at the bottom of the hill. The physics behave this way in every instance where it applies both modern or classic!

    Example 4A: Sonic Generations GHZ act 2. Before the waterfall section you hit a checkpoint on a wooden bridge portion. If you're boosting when you hit that checkpoint and hit the boost pads...jump (hurdle) before the hill turns downward and Sonic will practically fling across the whole section based on how well you timed it, and land all the way to the trick ramp leading to inside the waterfall cavern where the Giant Chopper chases Sonic hence skipping prior obstacles.

    Example 4B: Speed Highway Act 1. As soon as the level starts, spindash and jump. Based on the trajectory down the hill when you jump, you'll bounce off the balloons leading to the higher path using the same exact physics concept as in EVERY aforementioned example.

    The point of these examples is to highlight the physics of what makes Sonic......"Sonic" in terms of gameplay from its classic roots up into its modern interpretation (even if it's not a perfect 1:1 translation). But it also highlights the translation of said gameplay through its different style renditions in modern times. Utopia is in fact the best 3D interpretation, but SA1 and SA2 laid the groundwork in terms of official renditions of incorporating what makes Sonic "Sonic" in 3D (albeit in boost format and classic emulation). The problem lies in automation regarding recent games. Boost pads, accelerators, and fixed trajectories on half pipes/slopes marginalize player input and deviation. They need to stop shoehorning wisps and stop nerfing Sonic's movement. I also don't think it fair to bash boost and praise Adventure style. Adventure being the prototype to boost, is why the Adventure/Heroes/06 level ports work so well, design wise, on Generations mods for PC.

    Sonic Team may not be aware of what makes Sonic "Sonic" which warrants skepticism, but they are incorporating elements, albeit subconsciously. They just focus too much on the "BOOST FAST GOTTA GO!" agenda, which ignores momentum, inertia, gravity, slopes of tropes, as the key aspects of gameplay as speed is a reward for the player when timing button presses/jumps is utilized with physics. A return to SA1 with Generations Chemical Plant, Sky Sanctuary, Seaside Hill, City Escape-ish level depth and route exploration would bode well.

    Level memory, timing/response time, precision platforming, momentum, rollerball physics = Sonic game. Don't blame boost. Just practice ^_^
  5. TimmiT


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Member
  6. Atendega


    Lesser Sea Sponge Member
    Comfy couch
    Collecting insults
  7. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

    Working on my art!
    I wonder how many homing shots are going on around Sonic in that 1st level.
  8. MegaDash


    Pinpricks Member
    I think it looks pretty cool. It feels good to finally see and hear some real action from the game.

    The music, the fiery debris, the explosions, and the giant Eggmechs getting fired on by le résistance; it all reminds me of Sonic 06, if that game was made as more of a SatAM reboot, or simply Sonic 06 done right.

    It looks fucking amazing. I love the spectacle of chaos you're given to look at while you're going fast. It makes me want to experience it in VR or 3D, which I've never thought about until now, but that'd be a great opportunity for a Sonic game to take advantage of. Kudos to IGN once again for uploading a clip in 60fps.
  9. Ell678


    Am I Annoying You? Member
    Barrow, England
    Sonic Incursion
    I can't wait to see more. I absolutely love Generations - it finally hit the balance of boosting and slower platforming.

    Wild, baseless speculation here - but the colour schemes of the Egg Pawns and Death Egg bot are different than usual. What if they were not made by Eggman, or better yet, they are Eggman Nega's? Wasn't silver/gray his thing?
  10. TimmiT


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Member
  11. Krigo


    Robotics;Notes shill Member
  12. Felik



    This remix is so good. SEGA should hire this guy :)
  13. Nova


    オ カ エ リ ナ サ λ Site Staff
  14. SuccinctAndPunchy


    Always mad on the internet. Member
    Perpetually trying to find more games to speedrun.
    Well, it definitely seems like this is one is following from Colours and Generations example and those two are my favourite in the series by an incredibly wide margin, so I'm actually kind of interested to see where this goes! Honestly was not expecting to care but I'm pleasantly surprised.

    Playing a Sonic game in VR sounds like the absolute fastest way to go about losing your lunch to VR sickness that you could possibly devise.
  15. Amnimator


    Well, not necessarily. It can certainly be done; there's just not a one-size-fits-all locomotion solution for VR currently. Some work better for other games. The developers behind Raw Data announced a new game with a locomotion method that could work for a Sonic game. Apparently it doesn't make people motion sick either: [Linky]

    It's just that VR devices are too expensive for the average consumer and that VR games require a large amount of research and development for making a single game. Even if PSVR did well in increasing the overall premium VR user base, it's still way too small for SEGA to feasibly say, "Yeah, lets do that.". That and the PSVR's seated or standing 180 degree experiences only limit what most can do with the platform in the first place. The Move's controllers lack of an analog doesn't help either. What the VR user base is good for in a business stand point currently is to popularize obscure IPs since people in the VR space typically keep an eye out for most of the oncoming releases, making it harder to get lost in the noise and easier to get noticed. See Danganronpa or Hatsune Miku VR for example.
    I'd like to see a Sonic VR myself, but VR seems like a slow growth. I doubt it'll get phased out like 3DTVs but will slowly grow as years go by. It's doable, but I see it more likely as a fan game/engine for now. The main issue isn't figuring out a locomotion method, mainly the user base's size.
  16. TimmiT


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Member

  17. XD
  18. Amnimator


    Masterful. Can't wait to hear the whole vocal track.
    Make it stop.
    Anyway, in the trailer, what bothers me is how the art style is conflicting within the same game, or game mode for that matter. The mountains and background look straight out of Lost World, the buildings look like the desert town from Mario Odyssey, and other parts of the background look like the semi realistic visuals Unleashed went for. The way Sonic goes from 0 to max speed in the first few seconds of the gameplay trailer also bothers me. It doesn't look like he's gaining and maintaining momentum, it seems like he's worrying on keeping his boost bar up. Not necessarily awful, but more along the lines of what boost games gave us, which I personally think are fine the first playthrough but relatively un-fun after that. Boost isn't my cup of tea, or at least I think the way it is implemented turns the game design for the worse.
    There's two other game modes, so I guess I might find something to get hyped up about there. I just hope they're not spreading themselves thin.
  19. Aquova


    Professional nerd in training Member
    Wow, I would love to see this guy work with SEGA! Perhaps on some sort of classic 2D revival game, I think his style would suit that well.
  20. Cooljerk


    NotEqual Tech, Inc - VR & Game Dev Oldbie
    I've seen this method of locomotion make people sick before.