Sonic Forces Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Blue Blood, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. jubbalub

    jubbalub

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    Sonic Mania: The Misfits Pack
    Unfortunately I only own Forces on PS4 so I can't play this. As much as I dislike this game, this is an extremely cool mod. Whole ass custom boss fight!

    makes you wonder how much different this would have been if SEGA had added Chaos as a boss themselves. In all likelihood it would've been a reskin of one of the Infinite fights
     
  2. SystemsReady

    SystemsReady

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    Taking like eight months to make a boss fight is exactly what I mean by fandevs having "infinite time" in that other topic :oldbie:
     
  3. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Ya, but they had 4 years to make Forces and the game can be beat in 3 hours. I'd hardly consider this game "rushed." They had plenty of time but poor management and a lack of direction lead to this short, unsatisfying mess of a game.
     
  4. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

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    It was actually only developed in a year, as the developers said in a Famitsu interview.
     
  5. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Ya but im including the 3 years they dicked around with prototypes and lighting engine work
     
  6. iGamr

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    That is some impressively authentic-sounding "Forces Classic Sonic" music, for better or worse. I didn't even question it until the Open Your Heart part kicked in. :V
     
  7. Mana

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    The most comedy of errors part about this game to me is the fact that the previous Modern Sonic games had a limited amount of Modern Stages because they were hard to produce and make complex while still making sure each had high quality.

    This game probably has more modern Sonic stages than any other game but Colors which is also full of filler but was at least well received in general. Turns out the only way they can include more modern stages is to make them way shorter and simpler.

    Be careful what you wish for....
     
  8. TheKazeblade

    TheKazeblade

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    There shouldn't have to be a compromise like that. In fact I'm certain there shouldn't be. The fact that there was seems to have been an intentional design decision, or at the very least that's their PR reasoning. I have my doubts that that is the actual reason it was so shallow. Generations had at most two years of development, half of the time allotted to Forces (whatever they spent that four years on clearly isn't present in the final product) and still created the strongest boost stages mechanically of any of the boost games.

    They could have spent time creating more of that core boost experience in Forces, but either for marketing purposes or bad resource and time management, we got an unfocused vapid freeway rest stop of a game.
     
  9. Laura

    Laura

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    The real question is what are they doing now. Are they messing about with prototypes again? Have they just started on development for late 2021 release?
     
  10. LucasMadword

    LucasMadword

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    Hopefully they've spent the last few years since Forces making another new lighting engine :P

    I do think they have to have something more than prototypes, weren't they going to show the game off in March? So that would mean that they would *have* to have something more than a prototype to show off? I dunno, wishful thinking here lol
     
  11. If nothing else, this game establishes that time doesn't mean much if resource management is extremely poor.

    This is technically the first and only game for an HD eight generation console, so they probably felt pressured to make sure the lighting engine was optimized to avoid another situation like Unleashed where the game chugged like hell.

    So they opted to make a simpler game and focus on the lighting engine. That's not a bad idea, but then they advertised this game as this epic tale about war. The game sells you on a higher scope than it actually is.

    Its the complete inverse of 06 hilariously, rather than being a game that collapsed on its own ambitions, Forces is a game that never really reaches the ambitions it establishes for itself.
     
  12. Dark Sonic

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    Hopefully the next game reuses the lighting engine, if only to save time. Hell the old one would be fine by now, the ps4 could definitely run Unleashed if it was optimized for it. I think the advantage for the hedgehog engine 2 is that the lighting can be generated on the fly rather than it having to be compiled in advance.

    I just hope the next game is a bit better in the art style department. TSR looked nice at least.
     
  13. Yea, at this point they have a proper lighting engine, so there's no reason to not work on the actual game this time.

    Whether they actually do that, we shall see.
     
  14. Glaber

    Glaber

    Has Beaten Sonic Genesis for GBA Oldbie
    maybe this time they can fix the analogue controls too so it doesn't feel so awkward to use the thumb stick.
     
  15. You know, when you think about it, this game is a modern day 06 for the people who swear it's the worst Sonic game ever made. I'd imagine the only way you could think Forces is a terrible game (when it's just mediocre at worst) is if you had high expectations for it to begin with. Which hilariously, is a trait it shares with 06. The only difference is that I don't think anyone but the hardcore fans had any faith in Forces, while everyone had some faith in 06 I feel like.

    It is a modern 06, for ironically the group of fans who never grew up to understand why 06 was considered so bad. Go figure.
     
  16. Beltway

    Beltway

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    The Hedgehog Engine 2 only took up one year of Forces' four-year production period; that still left at least three years for them to figure out how they wanted to manage production for the final game. Beyond optimizing the engine for performance parity across all platforms (gonna be interesting how the Switch and the newly-arriving PS5 and XSX factor in here); I don't think the engine should be too much of an issue for the next game's production.

    TSR is better visually than Forces, but I think it's another offender of the "budget" art direction that Forces brought to the table. Even with new assets and blending of old/new assets with a more consistent artstyle; TSR has an odd, saturated look to it that makes the aesthetics of the environments look off. I imagine that's an intentional choice to keep over the "half-Lost World, half-Generations" visual philosophy that was implemented with Forces.
     
  17. Josh

    Josh

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    Agreed, that reminds me of what I was saying a few months back:

     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2020
  18. Oh right, I never actually gave my impressions of this game given I played it earlier this year when it was free on PSN.

    I'm very much struggling to remember, but to be honest there was just nothing memorable about it. And this is three years after all of the hype and expectations wore off; I certainly didn't think it was the trashfire many fans say it is, but I really can't say there was anything I particularly enjoyed either. It's a game that is honestly just middle of the road, it's not Sonic's worst game but there's really nothing worth going back for either. Apathy is the best way I can describe my feelings, with a hint of disappointment sprinkled in.

    I guess I'll try to breakdown my impressions.

    Gameplay: So based on the interviews, this game was deliberately designed to be a simple, pick up and play title. I have no issue with that, because I do think Sonic games tend to lean a little too much into esoteric territory for just anyone to play them, so that's a bad idea. But I feel like they leaned so far into that mindset that there's nothing really interesting to do, the game will play itself more often than not and stages are so short that just when you starting getting invested, they're over. If you're a younger and less experienced player, it's welcoming but damn does it not offer much beyond that to anyone with any real experience with the series. Felt like I was just going through the motions after a certain point. This game, ironically, brings the "boost to win" meme to light.

    Of the three styles, the Avatar was the most enjoyable and it was clear where the priorities were. His controls are a bit tankier than Sonic's, which makes him a lot more controllable and using different Wispon combinations to cheese the level design is actually pretty fun. Think Drill was my favorite to use for that alone given you can rev it up, and use it mid jump. It's probably one of the more interesting gimmicks the series tried, and I wouldn't mind it returning given to another character like Tails (or Whisper if they ever put her in). Really wish the grappling hook wasn't just an automated sequence though, because there's a lot potential with being able to use it freely.

    Modern Sonic basically plays like a watered down Generations; he's lost the quick step, the drift, the wall jump, etc which ironically made some levels like Metropolis annoying with those sharp turns if you're boosting. I don't really have much to say here, Modern probably has the blandest level design with the exception of Mortar Canyon, but as mentioned, the level is over before anything really interesting happens. Hilariously, it's only during the tag team levels with Modern and the Avatar that the game really feels "complete". I did like the first Infinite boss fight though.

    Classic sucks. I can end that there, but ooh man. I have no idea how they missed the mark so badly. It's not like Classic was particularly hard in Generations, so why did they nerf him so hard? Just...Sonic Team, please never use Classic Sonic again. Just let Whitehead and co do him, please.


    Presentation: This game looks surprisingly good if nothing else, they worked on that lighting engine and it shows. I'm not sure how I feel about this hybrid of Generations and Lost World's artstyles though, think it would be better if they just stuck to one or the other. Game runs at a consistent 60fps on PS4 too. That said, can we stop shortening Modern Sonic's quills and limbs to make him look closer to Classic? Classic is already in the game, so what's the point. And the lighter shade of blue is ugly.

    The biggest letdown though are the animations, or lack thereof. This has been a problem for a while now, and it still persists here. There's just a real lack of energy and snap to the character movements. The lack of idle poses or even different homing attack poses makes it even more egregious. Is it really that difficult to animate these characters with some energy?

    Music: Eeehhh, it's aight. They were really leaning into the "darker and edgier" theme this time around, with militaristic sounding music and whatnot. I didn't hate it, but there's very few tracks that stand out. avatar gets lyrical stages, which have the same appeal stages like City Escape had which got a smile out of me. Modern Sonic got this weird...synth type of a thing? I don't know, some tracks were good but others weren't. Classic once again, gets the shortend of the stick here. Have no idea what they were going for.


    Plot: This is easily the game's weakest point, and probably why so many fans have a bone to pick with it. Many were expecting this grand scale plot on par with the Adventure games, but what we got was pretty much just a wet fart in terms of scope. I don't share the same level of disappointment, but it's a damn shame this game wastes what should be a major event in the series. Eggman finally takes over the world and beats Sonic, and his friends have to hold the fort down. It SHOULD be interesting, or at the very least, entertaining but it's presented in such a half-baked and lazy manner.

    You can barely call this a story to be honest; things just kind of happen, and then the game ends. There's no sense of progression or scale of anything that's happening and that ties into the presentation issues I brought up before. Eggman takes over, but we never see what the world is actually like under his rule as we don't even meet any citizens or the like. We're never privy to what the characters are actually doing, so it just feels like they're useless without Sonic. The avatar and Sonic's feels so damn awkward due to the former's lack of a real personality, like I get the point was for the player to self insert but they couldn't even give us dialogue options? Classic has the least amount of relevance in the game as he just feels like an afterthought, and Infinite amounted to basically nothing; we never learn anything about him, his motives or goals, and he's removed from the plot once it's time for the obligatory Eggman final boss. And no, Episode: Shadow does not fill in any holes, because nothing it presents is followed up in the main game, so its' meaningless.

    The story is just a whole lot of hot air, it wants to be taken seriously, but never takes the steps in order to be taken seriously. Say what you want about older games, but they at least attempted to play up the stakes they presented even if it was mishandled. I know many people could give less than a shit about Sonic stories, but if you're gonna advertise a game as having a large scope and stakes, then at least TRY to own it and live up to them. I sympathize with the people who wanted to care about this story, because as someone who grew up on Sonic adventure 2, even I find myself somewhat wishful for this series to inject some adrenaline into itself at times and this just drops the ball on all accounts.



    So yea, those are my thoughts...honestly just play Unleashed or Generations if you want better Modern Sonic gameplay. Play Mania if you want better Classic gameplay, and just play the Adventure games if you want a story worth caring about. This game attempts to do so many things that have just been done better in the past, and it ends up failing on all accounts. It's far from the worst game in the series, but it's honestly just forgettable all around and it's a shame this game is the latest impression people can have on the series. It's a C grade, not the worst game ever, but you can honestly do better. There's a reason I waited until this game was free before I played it.
     
  19. Josh

    Josh

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    I, too, was expecting storytelling roughly on par with the early 3D titles. But that's exactly why the story didn't disappoint me, haha.

    This, I think, is a major point of contention regarding this game's reception. This plot was exactly what I expected: Sonic Team tries for this high-stakes, weighty plot, but bungles the execution and characterization so spectacularly that it's hard to see why anyone over the age of 13 or so could enjoy it unironically. This is the way it goes every time they try to tell a more serious story. I had this uneasy feeling the moment they showed the reveal trailer, because they never DON'T fuck it up.

    So it's kinda funny for people to unfavorably compare it to games like SA2, Shadow, and 06, because the awfully-executed storytelling in games like that were exactly what ruined the perception of stories in Sonic games, and led people to decide that "Sonic doesn't need a story."

    I mean, I get it. If someone played the early 3D titles when they were a kid, of COURSE they'd think they were epic, just like I'm sure kids NOW think Forces is epic. It just reminds me of people my age going, "These new Power Rangers are SO LAME and STUPID, they're just for KIDS. Now MIGHTY MORPHIN', that was when Power Rangers was badass!" And I'm sure I'd have said that when I was around 18.

    I'm not saying things haven't changed at all, but maybe the product didn't change as much as your perspective.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2020
  20. Laura

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    I think Forces is worse than mediocre. The story is laughably dreadful, easily the worst it's been since 06. It's unintentionally funny, but if you are actually being serious about it then it's undeniably awful.

    The level design in almost all the stages is dire. Classic Sonic controls poorly, the bosses are mostly recycled designs, and the sound production is shoddy. I'll be honest too, I don't even think it looks great.

    Forces is below average, it's a 4/10 it's far inferior to the likes of Generations or Colors.