Sonic Forces Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Blue Blood, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. SoNick

    SoNick

    Oldbie
    Hit some of us up in late 2003/early 2004 or more of us around 2006 or etc. There are rare gems here and there, but after being let down this many times you kind of get this feeling that you only have yourself to blame for believing any of the new games will be good. It's better to set your expectations low and occasionally be pleasantly surprised than it is to set your expectations high and end up disappointed and angry time after time after time. Whether the rather low bars the games meet are enough to justify the price they're selling for is up to the individual.

    For instance, if Forces was going for full price at launch I wouldn't have picked it up. At $40 I decided it was cheap enough to pick up and if I didn't like it then I'm not out serious money. My experience was a dull "yep, that was certainly a video game that exists" and to the shelf it goes to be forgotten aside from a topic about it here that is still ongoing. I kind of wish I'd held onto that money as it could have gotten me an 11x relic draw in Final Fantasy: Record Keeper with an extra $10 to spare to buy lunch or something, but I knew going in that I had a high chance of disappointment so I'm not all that worried about it.
     
  2. Beltway

    Beltway

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    The NES/SNES Mario games prior to Mario 64 were also multiple stages designed linear point A-to-point B objectives. Mario was also never a open-world exploratory platformer at that point either, yet they were able to make it work tremendously well. The reason Mario's 3D roots are about that style of open-world platforming was because the designers decided to take that chance and significantly rework the existing Mario gameplay to that format. Moreover, saying Mario's 3D titles have always been open-world isn't true, 3D Land and 3D World are explicitly designed to be designed in accordance to the linear objective-based gameplay of the 2D Mario titles; and the Galaxy titles, while more closer in gameplay to 64 and Sunshine, have also been described Nintendo themselves to be more linear-based in nature rather than open-world.

    As for the idea about an open-world /sandbox 3D Sonic, I'd argue the notion isn't really as ludicrous as people constantly shoot it down to be. I mean, if the only thing that comes to mind when you think of the term "open world / sandbox Sonic" is Sonic running / boosting through a giant empty world and then asking how can you make an entire game out of doing that; then yeah, I guess it is impossible. I'd rather not have the concept to be pigeonholed into that mindset though. It just reeks of the "Sonic is all about speed" bullshit meme train that's been plaguing the series for years, and it also implies Sonic levels can't have any objectives other than "get-to-the-goal" (and on that note, also can't have multiple "get-to-the-goal" objectives for that matter). If you avoid both mindsets and look at other examples in the genre for inspiration (Mario, Banjo, Spyro, etc.), it shouldn't be that hard to imagine what you can do with a 3D sandbox Sonic from there.

    I actually do think this is also the main reason why 3D sandbox fan projects / demos like Green Hill Paradise and Utopia get trashed and why people use them as an example to write the concept off entirely. They don't offer much to do outside of from running / rolling (/ boosting) around their landscapes, and they are thus "just 3D physics tech demos". While Utopia, unlike GHP, does actually have an end goal to provide a point-A-to-point-B objective; most people who played the demo aren't even aware that it exists, due to the game not giving enough feedback to the player that it even offers an objective for them to accomplish. Though with that said, I imagine that would actually require additional development work in regards to creating and programming/implementing the necessary mechanics, assets, and game code to pull it off; which is why few --if any-- examples exist, unfortunately.
     
  3. Laughingcow

    Laughingcow

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    The platforming in Bayonetta was sparse but was more satisfying to me than Sonic Colors onward. It's the need for skill really. I died in some of the platforming in Bayonetta, I slept walked through Gernerations.

    It needs to be more than me hitting the jump button if you get what I mean.
     
  4. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    That also can just come down to difficulty. I feel like Bayonetta is supposed to be harder than Sonic is. But different strokes for different folks I guess.

    Anyway here's some more stuff found in Forces. Here we have test level layouts:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwQQZIIQMfM
     
  5. BlackFive

    BlackFive

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    Not that it justifies the state of Sonic Forces, but have we had any conformation or strong evidence that it was ever meant to be an anniversary game? Sure, it was announced at an anniversary event, but even then the release window was slated to be after the franchise turned 26 (unlike Mania, which has references to the 25th in the final game). Then there's the fact that the avatar gameplay was originally supposed to make up the majority of the game, and that certainly doesn't strike me as something you'd do for an anniversary title.
     
  6. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    They might have shoehorned it into an anniversary game, but with the amount of nostalgia pandering one would think that it was an anniversary game (Hi Chaos, nice of you to do fuck all the entire game outside of existing). Anyways for those interested here's some more unused stuff lying in the game (No wonder it's 18 GB in file size). Today we have an early layout for Luminous Forest (assuming it's Modern's level) and all the maps that were used for pre-rendered cutscenes, because yes those are still in the game too for some reason.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkrJzJVtLyw
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmrs7wye2WI
     
  7. LukyHRE

    LukyHRE

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    That's some really interesting stuff. Perhaps all the prerendered cutscenes were intended to be run in real time at some point? If the whole levels used for it are still there, maybe we can find other things, like the animations used for the characters, or the voice files.
     
  8. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

    DON'T TRUST THIS MAN Member
    Man, seeing Sonic walk around these areas almost gave me the Adventure Field vibes. I don't care what anyone says, I would have loved to see something like that implemented - even if just to add some variety to the staight-line stages. Then also each 'field' area could have split off into the Classic, Modern, Avatar and Tag stages or something, not that the world map isn't fine or anything..
     
  9. Beltway

    Beltway

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    Sega posted their 3rd quarter sales reports today. No individual sales for Sonic Forces (and still none for Mania for that matter). Forces was however credited alongside Yakuza Kiwami 2 and Football Manager 2017 was credited for giving Sega strong packaged game sales for that quarter, so there's that I guess.

    Seems Sega no longer gives individual sales for their games as of the 2015 restructure / 2016 FY. Not too happy about that, although I will admit it's a change I should had noticed sooner rather than later. We'll have to rely on the developers themselves (such as Atlus, as seen with Persona 5 now having sold 2 million WW) or franchise-specific events (the Puyo Puyo Anniversary stream recently announced Puyo Puyo Tetris was nearly past 1 million WW, and the Sonic SXSW panel will supposedly touch on Mania and Forces' sales too).

    Really hoping we will get individual sales numbers for both Sonic Forces and Sonic Mania from the panel, but knowing how the Sonic panel PR announcement was phrased "the tremendous success of Mania and Forces", I have a bad feeling they will pull a Microsoft and fudge the numbers together in order to save face; so we won't know how each game performed on its own.
     
  10. Laughingcow

    Laughingcow

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    Meanwhile, Super Mario Odyssey has sold 9m

    https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2018/180131_3e.pdf

    That said, we do need individual numbers. It's all BS until then.
     
  11. makoeyes

    makoeyes

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    If Sega isn't releasing the sales numbers of Sonic Forces and Sonic Mania, you can guarantee that Mania outsold Forces by a significant degree.

    Like, blew it out of the park. Sega of Japan are probably puzzled beyond belief as to why Forces was outsold by a retro, US made title that was created by fans. I wouldn't be surprised if they're even butthurt by it.

    There's no reason Sega would hide or obfuscate the figures unless the figures are not something that can stand on their own and they feel shame over it. Likewise, Sega isn't revealing Mania's because they feel it would be an affront to their pride, as well.
     
  12. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

    DON'T TRUST THIS MAN Member
    I agree that Sega are probably reluctant to admit that Forces didn't sell as well as they hoped, but I don't really agree that there's any kind animosity towards Mania. Mania is still one of Sega's games regardless of which team made it, and it still made the company money at the end of the day. Also considering Mania had guidance from members of Sonic Team (Kazuyuki Hoshino, Iizuka, etc), I'm sure they're quite happy to see it succeed. If anything, Sonic Team would be upset at themselves for not creating something that people wanted.

    If the two were to be put head-to head in any way, it would be more of a question of 'Did Mania's release take away from the sales of Forces'? Personally, I think the people who didn't buy Forces still wouldn't have bought it regardless of whether Mania existed or not.
     
  13. Dissent

    Dissent

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  14. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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  15. Laughingcow

    Laughingcow

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  16. Felik

    Felik

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  17. Fenrir

    Fenrir

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    I mean, as much as I want to throw shade... I bought this trainwreck. So I'm just part of the problem.

    I'm not making that mistake again. Not until reviews come through/it's by Whitehead's team.
     
  18. VentusDark

    VentusDark

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    I'm so mixed when it comes to Forces I'm not gonna lie. There's things I genuinely enjoy from it but there's also things that just completely ruin it for me. Like I can see why people would say it's good or bad but I can't seem to have any other opinion aside from "Eh hit or miss"
     
  19. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Ya this. I am critical of it but I still kinda like it. It joins Sonic R in the category of good drunken romp.
     
  20. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    Forces is popcorn blockbuster whatever Sonic. It's not really good, but nothing about it is offensively terrible enough to be below anything I actually dislike. It's a strong five to a light six. I'll only really have a problem if it starts a trend of it's own specific brand of design choices, and I doubt that's going to happen. Whatever new Sonic game comes out, good or bad, will have different problems, most likely.