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Sonic Forces Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Blue Blood, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. Lord Nero

    Lord Nero

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    Super Sonic DLC finally made it to the US PS Store, just finished installing it a few minutes ago.

    ..feel's wrong saying that..
     
  2. Linkabel

    Linkabel

    Member
    How do they handle?
     
  3. MainMemory

    MainMemory

    Kate the Wolf Tech Member
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    It's on Steam too, but for some reason it's not listed under the DLC category: http://store.steampowered.com/app/715860/Super_Sonic_DLC/
     
  4. XCubed

    XCubed

    Will Someday Own a Rent-A-Center Oldbie
    It's time to download SUPER SANIKS guise!!! :specialed:

    I'm considering moving to the Mania universe. PERMANENTLY. I'll take my chances with that uncharted territory.
     
  5. RGX

    RGX

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    I'm not gonna continue to humor you any longer, this is the last time. Sonic Forces and Battlefront II were criticized for different reasons. BFII for greedy business decisions and Forces for shitty direction, controls, and level design.

    Again:
    "Unless you like to convince the rest of Sonic Retro why Sonic Forces does 3D game-play and classic 2D Sonic game-play properly. Good luck with that."



    As of "NOW", SEGA is planning to charge, It's relevant. Did I say it completely excuses EA's shitty earlier decisions? All I said that right now the issue isn't present and you can only ASSUME what they will do, like you have been and continue to do now. While we know SEGA will charge. Even if the micro-transactions do come back, you can only once again ASSUME how it' going to be handled.


    You can assume all you like. Fact is, it isn't an issue as of now. Once again you don't know how it will be handled if it does return. Most of your posts are assumptions. It's getting tiring.

    If you're going to quote me, do it right.

    No. This is why I'm absolutely done replying to you. It's been proven in interviews that control was taken from players and in-game credits revealed that the level designers were inexperienced. Let alone Sonic Team having poor direction that everyone has already seen and know. Sonic Forces is the more incompetent game. BFII is the more competent game that was originally filled with greedy cooperate decisions. That's the difference that you'll never understand and I'm not elaborating further on it.


    Of course it is. You're trying desperately to excuse and brush aside that Sonic Team had no idea what they were doing with Sonic Forces. Just because you can beat the game doesn't mean the game direction and philosophy behind it wasn't bad. EA knew what they wanted Battlefront 2 to be. They made improvements and learned some mistakes form the previous game. Sonic Team didn't.

    Just stop right there. Completely makes this conversation a waste of time by saying that.

    Not the point. They're still selling in-game DLC.


    Ultimately I'm going to break down how I feel because I'm tired of replying and miscommunication:

    Between Sonic Team and EA:

    Who do I think is more evil, scummy, and greedy? EA.

    Who do I think is the more competent developer and delivered a better product? EA.

    Who do I think has a better chance of making a better product in the next iteration? EA.

    Who do I believe will actually take action due to backlash? EA.


    Other comments:

    - Morally, I believe Sonic Team is a better developer than EA. This is Sonic Team's first time doing something scummy like this, EA has a bad track record. However, fundamentally and quality-wise, EA delivered a better product in Battlefront II as opposed to Sonic Team delivering Sonic Forces simply because they understand their product. Sonic Team doesn't understand Sonic.

    - I do believe EA has the potential to try to do something to piss gamers off again. I really don't trust them. But as of now, Battlefront II has already removed the controversial problem and it has not yet returned. I agree that damage has been done already, no one can deny that. However, you currently can't fault the game for a problem that has been removed. It's not the same product anymore.

    - SEGA & Sonic Team is inconsistent, incompetent, and they refuse to learn from their mistakes (Classic Sonic says it all). They've lost staff members who actually knew what they were doing. I'm not trying to knock on the newbies but they obviously didn't get good direction while working on Sonic Forces. Sonic Team's products' quality keep fluctuating or declining. There's no trust or confidence in Sonic Team. While the problem with EA is wondering how they'll milk the game to get more money.

    - I don't see Sonic Team ever going to bother to fix the whole "Shadow Avatar DLC" situation going on with physical game owners on Xbox and I am absolutely hoping more Sonic fans speak up to SEGA in order to prevent Super Sonic from being paid in-game DLC. It's not right, it doesn't matter if the DLC is free for a month, it doesn't matter if it's only $2. No company should charge for in-game content. Having the nerve to charge for in-game content (which has always been a reward in the franchise) for a mediocre product to make a quick buck feels like a slap in the face. It may not be as bad as "micro-transactions," but it's still a shitty move to pull.

    Anyways, I said what I had to say. I'm done.
     
  6. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

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    EA has made bad corporate decisions, but they are good developers and have an excellent customer service. Seriously, I've bought games on Origin and had great interactions/got sales tickets/refunds with ease.
     
  7. We interrupt this debate about Triple AAA corporate stooges to deliver some ground-breaking news:

    It's the development of the century that has everyone lost for words and dumbstruck from this piece of astonishing news that came from left field:

    The first Zone in Sonic Runners Adventure is Green Hill Zone.

    For more top stories on the hour, please stay tuned with your local Sonic Station on 91.6 AM.
     
  8. Overlord

    Overlord

    Now playable in Smash Bros Ultimate Moderator
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    Mod reminder that this thread is about Sonic Forces + - You To Pay For Super Forms Next Month   and not EA Star Wars games.
     
  9. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    I have to ask, because this comes up every time: what does it matter that the level was already on the disc? If anything, it means you've gotten something you haven't paid for - the level is not part of the normal game price, it's extra content that happens to be accessible with some prying.

    The problem with this Super Sonic DLC is not that it was already on the disc (completely irrelevant), it's that Super Sonic has been an in-game unlockable since 1992, and should remain an in-game unlockable. I won't be supporting this practice.
     
  10. Fenrir

    Fenrir

    Eh. Member
    Because you when you buy something, you own it. In the case of a disk, you bought the disk, and therefore expect to have everything on that disk, because you paid money for it. I didn't pay for a disk with this little piece that contains that content snipped out with some scissors, I paid for the disk and everything that is on it when I boot up the game. It's like watching a movie on DVD, but you have to pay 2.99 to see 5 more minutes of the movie that you can't see otherwise.
     
  11. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    So if it wasn't on the disc it'd be fine?
     
  12. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    And? What does it matter when it's completely fucking obvious? That's like saying "well you're just assuming water will continue to be wet". How is knowing the nature of a scummy developer with a history of saying they'll stop being scummy and then not doing it and expecting them to repeat this such a hard thing to understand?

    I'm pretty sure I could find tons of testimony about why plenty of other people think that isn't true, as many as the ones here that do. So what would you tell me if I asked them? That they're just wrong because they don't have the amazing brain power that you do? That only Retro users are "real fans"?

    You stated that the reasons for Forces being bad are:

    1. Taking control from players. This is essentially the equivalent of filler for a game. It's not a good thing, but it doesn't compromise the core gameplay when you're actually playing it. You can claim that there's an overabundance, there is after all, but it's inherent presence doesn't instantly guarantee a bad game just because you say so.

    2.The devs are "inexperienced"...so? That means literally nothing, there have been plenty of cases where someone's first time developing a game has turned a massive success, especially in the indie market. Your actual reason is not thinking they did a very good job, which is kinda true -- but I don't see the reason to piggyback on excuses instead of what's actually wrong with the game here.

    I think we both know things have already escalated past that. After all, why take the time to reply if it's so apparently worthless?
    No they aren't. If you can pretend Battlefront's microtransactions aren't a problem because they aren't back yet, I can pretend Super Sonic isn't a problem because it doesn't cost $3 yet.

    See this is the part that gets me. Why? EA has claimed to stop being evil, stop killing games, stop sucking money from players more than once in the past and fuck all's changed.

    And I still don't get that. It's not gone for good and you should know that. No matter what they do, it'll be a worse implementation than this.

    And again, nobody's denying this. This is a stupid fucking DLC and the fact that it's going to be $3 is terrible. But it's the EA statements that are the problem, because they don't even compare, for incredibly obvious reasons. I don't see why liking one game over another immediately makes the other's less-intensive attempt at the same thing less excusable.

    I think the idea is that DLC should be something that isn't on the disc as a sign that it was either not finished in the final game, or straight-up constructed after the game itself, to give the impression that the developers aren't charging money for a piece of what's already in the game, but an addon that wouldn't have existed otherwise.

    It's like, a TV show finishes it's run, but suddenly releases another episode a month later. The good DLC way is that it's new footage or writing since the show was finished production, or at least something that never made it into the original version. The bad DLC way is that it's just an episode that was completely missing from the original series and was skipped.
     
  13. Beltway

    Beltway

    The most grateful Sonic fan of all time this week Member
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    I wouldn't compare Super Sonic to additional film footage, I'd consider additional levels to be more similar to the film footage comparison. Super Sonic IMO would be more akin to cast / crew commentary since both alter how you play the game / watch the film. I do understand and agree with the line of argument you're making in comparing it to products in other mediums. Releases of films, television shows, and music albums/soundtracks don't have content locked on the existing package that you have to pay extra for.

    As for the question about what's the difference between paid DLC being on the disc or not; I'd say there is some different context and level of expectations between the two methods. (Or at least, there used to be different expectations before "Day One DLC" --which can spark debates on whether said DLC could had been on, or even at one point was planned to be, part of the vanilla package or not-- became [more] commonplace for major releases.) Paid DLC that isn't on the disc implies its content was specifically put together separately from the vanilla package that's on the disc (again, Day One DLC notwithstanding). Paid DLC that is on the disk implies the developers/publishers want to charge additional money from consumers, for something that's already part of the vanilla package people will have already paid the full/premium price for.
     
  14. Laughingcow

    Laughingcow

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    Well, this thread is turning into a tire fire. Before it gets closed, I'd like to state the following:

    They are BOTH FUCKING WRONG!

    Now if you excuse me, I'm gonna go play Xenoblade 2. Also, thank you Monolith soft and Nintendo for somehow getting Kos-mos in this game. And thank you Bandai Namco for giving them the okay to do it.
     
  15. Sonikko

    Sonikko

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    Are people seriously making excuses for this?
    The Super Sonic DLC is a joke, why would you have to pay for it, when it has been a feature in every Sonic game since Colours on the Wii (7 years ago, not that recent in my book), and when it's also not much more than a model swap that was included in the game files at launch anyway.
    Episode Shadow would've made a bit more sense, but even then, it's just 3 stages with a sligthly different, badly designed, layout, that's it. That stuff is not worth paying for, it costs them basically nothing to do and it's just a way to lure in gullible costumers.
    The way I see this is:
    They understood many fans didn't buy the game on launch 'cause it was mediocre, but many would get it later, maybe buy it second hand. They want to capitalize on those sales too, so they locked a bit of content behind a paywall, so that they can make some free money out of it.
    It's not a coincidence that the first month the DLC is free, the game wasn't heavily discounted yet, and they knew that the fans who didn't like Forces wouldn't buy it at 30$/€.
    They're trying to contain the losses. But it's a very lame way to do it.
     
  16. Lord Nero

    Lord Nero

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    I didn't play a lot, Modern Super Sonic was pretty fun to play as thanks to his infinite boost, I didn't really get to try him on slower platforming sections barring one in Luminous Forest, kept falling in a pit due to the weird jump controls and a few errors on my part.
    Classic Super Sonic is a straight up joke, no speed up or anything, not sure about jump height as I didn't bother to check, the sluggishness altogether turned me off. Played him once. The synth remix of Fist Bump was rather cute though.
     
  17. Fenrir

    Fenrir

    Eh. Member
    Well, yes in the sense of it wouldn't be inside the product I already bought so it would be justified paying for it in regards to DLC in general, but even if it wasn't, having to pay for Super Sonic is still an absolute sin in and of itself.
     
  18. Lanzer

    Lanzer

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    PC players, is their any difference between Super Sonic then pre-DLC and now post-DLC? I do notice that they added a classic track to classic super sonic so the 2 supers are not sharing the 1 single track anymore.
     
  19. makoeyes

    makoeyes

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    ... I honestly can't believe this.

    I've tried to be optimistic about this game, *so hard*. And give Sega the benefit of the doubt in hopes they would surprise me and at least *attempt* to reward their loyal fans.

    And I got a surprise alright. Just not a good one.

    This game and it's entire production is disappointing on a metaphysical level. Perhaps if this game came out after Sonic Heroes for the PS2 this game and it's level of content and design would be acceptable. Maybe even amazing. But when Sonic Unleashed is offering more levels, gameplay, actual rewarding DLC, and difficulty and that game came out 9 FREAKING YEARS AGO, something is HORRIBLY wrong.

    Yes. The werehog stages were ass. But that still leaves half a game of content and levels that are still more than what's in Sonic Forces. Screw comparing Forces to Generations, the damn game isn't even able to measure up to Unleashed.

    And then they have the gall to charge for Super Sonic? First, you can't use him for all stages like boss battles. Second, he doesn't even stay Super for QTE. What kind of garbage is that? Super Sonic is literally nothing more than a reskin from Lost World. Its even more egregious with Classic Sonic. No speed boost or jump height increase.

    This game is literally the most mailed in Sonic game I have ever seen. And arguably, it almost feels worst than the bombs we've had in the franchise. Sonic 2006 was a raging tire fire, but you could at least sense and feel there was an ambitious creative goal and attempt. It just failed spectacularly.

    This game feels like an empty, phoned in, half-assed effort done because it needed to be done. There's absolutely no reason there could not have been more levels given as DLC level packs that could have rounded out this short abortion of a story. The game hints outright that the story isn't over with Eggman keeping 0.01% of the world; what does that mean?? Why include that if they have no intention to follow through with it?

    Instead we got a meme shirt and a crappy Super Sonic that they'll charge for in a month, in an attempt to make some cash to make up for the weak sales. I played with Super Sonic for an hour and a half before getting bored and closing the game.

    Maybe if Sega gave a damn they wouldn't need to do this. Before, the terrible Sonic games were incompetence. Now it's just out right laziness and greed. I'm not just disappointed. I'm pissed now. This is an egregious insult to Sonic fans and I really hope we make it known how we felt. This cannot be allowed anymore.
     
  20. Linkabel

    Linkabel

    Member
    I didn't have trouble with this because it's obvious that it's meant to be that Eggman is not completely defeated and he'll be back next game.

    There is something in the story though where it looks like they had something planned but didn't follow through with it.

    You defeat Infinite and he just flies away with the Phantom Ruby. And then Eggman shows up out of nowhere with the Phantom Ruby in his Death Egg robot?

    So did Infinite tap out and gave Eggman the ruby? Did Eggman take the ruby by force? Was Infinite's ruby a prototype even though the story made it look like it was the real one?

    I honestly thought there was going to be one last fight against a "Phantom Infinite" a la HBHs but it's definitely not happening.