Sonic Forces Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Blue Blood, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. Ravenfreak

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    Wtf Sega, who the hell thought of this "brilliant" idea to charge for a feature that's been a reward for players for 25 fucking years?! Good god this is going to give forces a even worse rep than it already has.
     
  2. RGX

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    As an owner of Battlefront 2 and Sonic Forces, I can say at least EA removed the micro-transactions and lowered the in-game currency cost for Heroes after the backlash and rectified their mistake. At least Battlefront 2 has high production values and is actually a game that wasn't slapped together like Sonic Forces was AND actually is an improvement over the last game (unlike Forces). Oh, and Battlefront 2's post-release (not in-game) DLC is "FREE."

    At least EA tried to fix things to make things right. SEGA however, don't know what they're doing and definitely deserve the shit they're getting over Forces.
     
  3. Retroman

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    Senile senior managements/the higher ups and the CEO of Sega Japan need a dose of reality and resign to let sane, passionate people with a nack of business and quality to take their positions.
     
  4. Chimpo

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    These two situations are in absolutely no way comparable. EA did not make the changes that they did out of good will or "to make things right". Defending their actions, no matter how much back pedaling they've done, is laughable.
     
  5. Shaddy the guy

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    None of those things about Battlefront 2 are true though. It's an "improvement" in the sense that it has what the first game should've, and EA's """fix""" is only a temporary one, since they're going to reactivate the microtransactions later anyway. I might add that they do this in boldfaced. SEGA at least is only locking a feature that's basically useless in Forces anyway, and they're giving the entire playerbase a month to get something with literally no drawbacks. The only people who are actually going to lose money to this are players way down the line who won't buy the game until they're new to the franchise or doing a retrospective. Because everyone who has the game is getting it for free immediately, and everyone who isn't getting it during that period probably doesn't care anyway. I don't recommend comparing an actually evil company to the one making dumbass mistakes just because you happen to like their game over the other. No edgy memes about how much you hate everything Sonic Team has ever done will actually make their actions malicious.
     
  6. Zephyr

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    I guess that's one way to get people to start talking about your game again.
     
  7. RGX

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    Free DLC isn't true?

    Regardless, an improvement is still an improvement. You're also disregarding the fact that Battlefront II didn't take control from the players nor made by folks who don't understand level design or game design. Despite shitty EA's decisions, Battlefront II has more effort, production value, and competence put into it's core gameplay. Can't say the same for Sonic Forces.

    You can assume that all you want. It isn't about which game I think is better, Battlefront II is a legitimate better-made game compared to Forces despite being different game genres. It was made by a team who understood 1st person and 3rd person shooters/ aerial combat, etc. While Sonic Forces was made by a team who still don't know how to transition Sonic to 3D, and don't even debate me on Classic Sonic.

    If you take away micro-transactions from Battlefront II, you still have a decently-made game.
    If you take away paid in-game DLC from Sonic Forces you still have a poor mediocre game.

    It has yet to be seen (Especially with Disney breathing down their necks) and how they will handle it (such as crystals for cosmetics only). But regardless, they bothered to remove the payment options due to backlash. It's not like they didn't listen at all.

    It doesn't matter, it's in-game DLC. It was a shitty business practice back when Capcom tried that in the mid-2000s and it still is now. Free for a month doesn't mean anything.

    Sonic Team can be good-hearted or bad-hearted, that's irrelevant. Doesn't matter if their actions are "malicious." Fact is, this is why competent people like the Mania Team is getting praise while Sonic Team are getting chewed out.

    I get it, EA sucks for what they did but at least their product is decently made. Sonic Team however shitted out Forces and have the nerve to charge for in-game DLC. Sonic Team IS the worse developer.
     
  8. Shaddy the guy

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    Regardless, an improvement is still an improvement. You're also disregarding the fact that Battlefront II didn't take control from the players nor made by folks who don't understand level design or game design. Despite shitty EA's decisions, Battlefront II has more effort, production value, and competence put into it's core gameplay. Can't say the same for Sonic Forces.
    [/quote]

    That's completely leaving the nature of this DLC up to your personal opinion on the game, though. How loud you yell the things you believe isn't going to make me care about what they are when that isn't the subject.

    If we just go by the current state of things, then this DLC must be fine, because it's still free, right?

    I'm not saying it's not a dumb move, I'm saying EA is an evil company, for reasons that go beyond microtransaction garbage. I might add that something being dumb half a decade ago and continuing to be doesn't make it worse than what is stupid right now and has probably the most concentrated outrage covered toward a single game since ET on the 2600. At least, I can't remember a bigger backlash toward a major games publisher since then.

    Except you're again acting like the game's quality in your eyes effects the magnitude of what these paid content provide. What constitutes "decently-made" in this context? Because I think pay-to-win bullshit is totally worse than a mildly-unsatisfying Classic Sonic level. Enjoyment comes from other parts of a game than just the core gameplay, and no matter what you pack into your game, if it pisses me off more than another game that doesn't and I'm enjoying it less, then I'll say it's less enjoyable AKA worse.

    And if what I understand is true, this could have been any sort of DLC, but because it's paid DLC for Forces, a game you already don't like, you'd apparently react in the same way, and I think that's kind of a losing attitude.

    The way I see it, the current state is Battlefront2 and Forces both having free unlocks, and the future state is one hoping you pay $3 for an extra that's barely needed and the other literally requiring you to pay more than that, for getting a chance to unlock the things you want. Whether you like one game or it's developer's history over the other is kind of irrelevant in that case. Regardless of whether people on the internet think a game is good, I'd rather know what I'm getting, and have the option to get it both cheaper and easier than the alternative. I can't see any reason to act like this is a worse choice just because you happen to hate one game and not another.
     
  9. HP Zoner

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    I feel the need to compare this to Crash Bandicoot N. Sane Trilogy's extra level pack. Paying to unlock a level that's already on the disc is scammy, even if it was free for a month. This is an awful trend that sets an even worse precedent. What's next? An Environmental Shields Pack?

    I had always assumed any paid DLC for this game would be limited to new Avatar items, but nope! I guess that just made too much sense.
     
  10. Linkabel

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    I honestly don't know how people can defend Battlefront 2. Even without the horrible progression system it still doesn't improve a lot from the first game. Crappy single player campaign with bad A.I. enemies, the gameplay is still Battlefield for kids and overall it's still very shallow and doesn't offer much to do. I guess it does look prettier though.

    Anyways, Super Sonic is out for U.S./Europe Xbox users and PS4 (EU). Weird it didn't go live for U.S. PS4 users at midnight but I'm guessing it will happen later on today. Same story for Steam.
     
  11. Retroman

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    Fixed for you :specialed:

    I'll present to you this meme. Sonic Mania is definitely the 2nd one since it's not exactly a commercial success to shoot out DLC's.
    [​IMG]
     
  12. RGX

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    No idea what you're talking about. I never once talked about the quality of either DLC. I talked about the quality of the games themselves and it's not opinion, it's fact. Unless you like to convince the rest of Sonic Retro why Sonic Forces does 3D game-play and classic 2D Sonic game-play properly. Good luck with that.

    Current state of things?

    - As of now, there's no more micro-transactions, and Battlefront 2 is delivering permanently free post-game DLC.
    - Sonic Forces is delivering temporarily free in-game DLC with the plan to charge in one month.

    You're not helping whatever your argument is supposed to be.


    You say "right now" but you're completely ignoring that micro-transactions have been removed for a while now and they still haven't returned. In the game's current state, micro-transactions are non-existent. In the case for Sonic Forces, SEGA hasn't said anything about making Super Sonic permanently free.

    Yeah, the micro-transactions was a big deal. Yeah, EA was receiving a shit-ton of backlash. Yeah, damage was done in the beginning of the game's life cycle. The keyword being "was." Players have a much easier time unlocking heroes now (since it requires much less in-game credits). You can do it in less than a week from just playing the game. It doesn't take as much as effort to gain credits and crafting parts to unlock and upgrade cards. All the original complaints from the backlash have been settled for the most part. Granted, some damage has been done already, but at least it won't continue.


    Before I continue...

    If I remove a problem, is there still a problem? No.
    If EA removes micro-transactions, is there still a problem with micro-transactions? No.

    Also, You keep saying "in my eyes" or "in my opinion." Why don't you take a look at the game yourself? For the most part, the game works and plays well as intended. It's doesn't suffer from a development team who don't know what direction to go in (like Forces). If you truly believe Sonic Forces is a better-made game than Battlefront 2, then you're delusional. Battlefront 2 comes from a developer with prior experience on how to make shooters/ flight combat. Sonic Forces comes with a director who strips control from the players hands and a bunch of level designers who have no prior experience making Sonic stages (other than the guy from Lost World and even he doesn't truly count for boost-gameplay). Not to mention they have 2D Sonic all wrong. There's countless pages of forum member literally criticizing the game-play and level-design in Forces. Stop trying to push that it's "my opinion" when the facts are right in front of you.

    You need to understand that without the core-gameplay, there is no game. As it stands, Sonic Team and EA Dice are "game developers." I don't care if you find or don't find enjoyment with other non-gameplay aspects of a game. That's irrelevant. Even if Sonic Forces had the best music, best presentation, or best story known to mankind, it doesn't save it from being a mediocre game with bad direction. Regardless of how you feel about Battlefront, it doesn't struggle being a shooter, it doesn't struggle with it's dogfights. Some games may know how to do it better than Battlefront, but it still stand that the game know what it wants to be and plays as intended. Sonic still struggles and still hasn't found his footing in 3D and Sonic Team are hopeless with 2D gameplay.

    Don't know what you're implying. As far as I'm aware, EA isn't trying to sell "post-in-game DLC" for Battlefront II. If they did, I'd be complaining about it like I am with Forces. Hell, I complained when Capcom did it.

    Post-game DLC that requires payment is fine as long as it's not in the game itself. Sonic Forces' Super Sonic DLC is in-game DLC. Price doesn't matter, principle does.


    Before anyone gets the wrong idea, I don't condone what EA did with the beginning of the game's life cycle. In fact, I think it's scummy. I don't play BFII for it's campaign but multiplayer has improved with it's handling of Heroes and in-game battle points. Instead of people camping aircraft or Hero tokens, players have to earn it. But those are opinions. "Much to do" is also subjective since there's several modes to play. But that's Off-Topic.

    Honestly, I'm only debating that Battlefront II is a better crafted game as opposed to Forces and that I don't support in-game DLC having a price tag, nothing more.
     
  13. Shaddy the guy

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    Wow.
    How is "in one month" a part of "now"? And even if it has to be, how does EA being vague about when they're reimplementing microtransactions completely excuse them?
    In the game's current state though, Super is free, and microtransactions are coming back. You can't willfully embrace one side of an argument and ignore the fact that it can be used on both games.
    Except it probably will. If you honestly trust EA so much that you think they won't keep trying to juice as much money out of people as they possibly can without twisting our thumbs off, I'd like to hear how much they're paying you.
    "If something isn't a problem yet, is there a problem?"
    What I'm "implying" is that no matter what this DLC was, even completely new content, based on what you've said, "it is Forces, therefore it is bad". And I don't think that's very fair. It is in Forces, and it's a stupid fucking decision, but that doesn't mean that you should judge a release for anything other than what it is, if you ask me.
    How is thinking Forces is anything better than a pile of shit a "fact" but suddenly thinking Battlefront isn't very good is "just your opinion"? And no, "because alot of people agree with me" isn't a valid reason. I could just point to the user metacritic scores for both games for that.

    Your basis seems to be whether they work as the type of game they're trying to be, but that still doesn't really work either. Forces is indeed a game where you run fast and jump on platforms. Everything about Forces does in fact function the way it's supposed to, and just because it's a shallower, watered-down version of Generations isn't going to change that no matter how much you want it to. Is taking control from the player a good thing? Not really. Does it literally prevent you from running fast or platforming? No, so that's not really an argument, is it?

    I'm not saying Forces is the best game ever or even better than Battlefront, but it's not broken like the actually bad Sonic games, and it's DLC model, while not foreseeably good, is not yet as bad as Battlefront's used to be, and probably never will be that bad, so I don't see any legitimate reason to call it worse just because you happen to put one game above the other.

    Plus, nobody with a brain is going to be spending money on Super Sonic, anyway.
     
  14. SuperSnoopy

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    I don't see how anyone could say Battlefront 2 economic model is better than Sonic Forces' one.

    They only removed microtransactions because of the fucking crusade the interned led against them.
     
  15. Shaddy the guy

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    I mean, they still did it. I'm not saying that isn't commendable (other than that it shouldn't have been an issue in the first place of course) but I just don't see them actually changing anything from what happens here, lest the global gaming market itself changes on the whole. I simply cannot trust them to be anything other than scummy the moment anyone looks away.
     
  16. SuperSnoopy

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    If they removed microtransactions indefinitely and for all their games (instead just the one that have mainstream attention), maybe I'll give them the benefice of the doubt.
    But right now they're only removing it because they became internet's scapegoat. As soon as people forget about this little incident, they'll put them back in the game for sure.

    Putting Super Sonic as a dlc is bullshit, obviously, but it simply can't be compared to EA's greed.
     
  17. Okamikurainya

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    Super Sonic as DLC would only make sense if he came along with an entire extra campaign, specifically dedicated to the locating of the Chaos Emeralds. As it is, regardless of how scummy the need to pay for it is, it's just plain lazy.
     
  18. MiSHiKiS

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    Using another company shit extra charging to make SEGAs shit extra charging look better isn't doing any favors, they're both really shitty, and softening their blow by saying "at least its not Battlefront 2" is kind of enabling them to do it. Forgiving it now will allow them to do worse next time
     
  19. Shaddy the guy

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    I...don't think anyone here has forgiven or softened things. This is all based in implication that Forces was WORSE than Battlefront2 in that department, not that either have the right idea.
     
  20. LordOfSquad

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    Some people did pay money for Sonic Forces. It's good business sense for SEGA to assume that, if people would actually pay money for it in the first place, they'd probably pay for some other dumb thing after the fact as well.

    Deplorable maybe, but there are no heroes here.