Sonic Forces Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Blue Blood, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. 360

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    Zephyr that's the best and most insightful run-down/review of the game I'm yet to read in this thread so far. You communicate yourself really well with nuance and flair. Excellent work.

    Still sounds like I'm skipping this game however. After replaying the beautiful labour of love that is Generations in glorious 60fps I just don't feel like stepping down to this.
     
  2. Covarr

    Covarr

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    Keep in mind, everyone, that Forces got a physical release, and a standard priced one that wasn't a collector's edition at that. Surely that had to have eaten into the game's eShop rank as well, though to what extent I don't know.
     
  3. Zephyr

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    Thanks! I do my best. :v:

    Again, just wait until Mortar Canyon is modded into Generations, and then you'll automatically have pretty much everything worthwhile that Forces has to offer.
     
  4. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

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    I swear this part got me more than any bad game design. I refuse to believe no-one at Sonic Team has read the original Sonic 1 (JP) manual at least once. Adventure 2 did it just fine.
     
  5. HP Zoner

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    Great post, Zephyr. I'd like to expand on a few points:

    Not being able to adjust your jumps in mid-air was one of my biggest problems with modern Sonic and the avatar. The distance you cover is measured by the speed you're going at before jumping, so a lot of the time you're not going to make the jump because you can't accelerate in mid-air, or you'll end up overshooting because you were running too fast (unless you keep stomping, which is a poor solution to a much bigger problem). It doesn't help that you accelerate like crazy while running. I went back to Generations after this, and though the controls aren't perfect there either, the difference is like night and day.

    (Also found it dumb that classic Sonic's vertical controls get inverted when he's upside down. You press UP to roll...)

    Adding to this, red rings are absolute crap in this game, because now they're hidden in mutually exclusive paths or inaccessible without the right Wispon (itself a crapshoot, since the game never tells you which Wisp capsules you're going to find before you enter a level). I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure this was never the case in previous games, or it was infrequent to the point that I never had a problem with it. This means you'd have to play most (all?) levels at least FOUR times to get everything. That's two runs for all the red rings, another run for the number panels, and then again for the silver moon medals. Artificial longevity at its worst.

    Why is Shadow absent for most of the game? Where was he during those six months Sonic spent incarcerated? Why does he never feel the need to tell the resistance that the other Shadow is a fake made by the Phantom Ruby? Actually, the story is plagued with oversights and dumb choices, so... eh.
     
  6. SuperSnoopy

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    Talking about Shadow, am I the only one that didn't understand what the fuck was going on in his episode ? I understood Infinite backstory just fine, but everything else was just weird. Granted, it was a few weeks ago now, but everything was kinda confusing to me even back then.
    When does it even take place ?
     
  7. HP Zoner

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    From memory:

    - Shadow infiltrates Eggman's base for intel because he needs an excuse to play in the water slide.
    - He hands pre-Infinite's ass to him. Hilarity ensues.
    - Infinite becomes THE SHARPEST OF BLADES.
    - One month later, Team Dark gets a recon mission related to Eggman's mysterious new weapon.
    - Omega is defeated somewhere by Infinite.
    - Edgelord Shadow finds Edgelord Infinite.
    - Infinite tortures Shadow with his powers by making him play through Green Hill AGAIN.
    - Infinite remembers he has to go beat up Sonic and the events of the main game start. Meanwhile, Shadow spends the next six months using Chaos Control to warp all the humans off the planet because he needs something to do, leaving only the resistance and the OCs to fight Eggman.
     
  8. Blue Blood

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    I love that this is hardly even an exaggeration.
     
  9. Beltway

    Beltway

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  10. Shade Vortex

    Shade Vortex

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    Actually, about the no humans thing, going by what's been said about the Official Sonic Story Bible there's 2 worlds that Sonic travels between. One where it's the more realistic Human world (Earth?) with humans, the other is the stylistic world with Sonic and his shitty friends ("Sonic's World" according to Eggman from Lost World). And between games that differ in terms of these locales Sonic & gang (including Eggman, Orbot and Cubot) go through a gate off-screen to transport between these worlds for god knows what reason.

    I'm not saying it's not as stupid or not as pulled-out-of-Sonic-Team's-ass as the explanation behind the moon still being half destroyed but just always facing its not-destroyed half towards the planet(s) now, but it's their canon excuse apparently.
     
  11. Hitlersaurus Christ

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    Yeah it's been that way since at least Colors, Eggman used "Sonic's World" in that. The moon explanation was fine as far as I'm concerned, but this one just doesn't make sense in the context of any of the other games pre-Colors. Like... everything to do with Angel Island or Shadow.
     
  12. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

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    Yup. Sonic Team can say their 'two world' concept is 100% canon, but it really means nothing unless it actually gets shown in-game (or hell, just officially published in some form of media at this point) in a way that doesn't already contradict the main games, which at this point it would. At this point, it's simply a safety net for fan-questions and interviews and that's probably how it's going to stay.

    Not showing humans in Forces doesn't mean they don't exist any more than they didn't in Sonic Heroes, Rush, Colors, Battle, etc. We always knew they were 'there', just not central to the plot. Forces isn't too different in that regard (I like to think the Metropolis in Forces was a Human city that Eggman took over, for example), plus SEGA have probably made a creative decision to avoid showing Humans to keep the decade long damage control to a minimum.

    Eggman saying 'Sonic's World' to me is either just SEGA trying to keep away from anything referencing the '06 era, or purely a Pontaff/Localisation thing.
    Does anyone remember which cutscenes in Colours/Lost World have that line? I might check it with the Japanese subs that Windii translated.
     
  13. HP Zoner

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    I think Eggman says it before the giant laser backfires in Colors. Unfortunately, I can't confirm this at the moment.

    As for humans being absent in Forces, yeah, I get that they're simply not shown, but in a story where Eggman takes over the world, you'd think there was at least a passing mention to G.U.N. or something. I know, different direction and all that, but it's still jarring because all the minor NPCs in previous games were human, and now we suddenly have a bunch of talking animals instead. Those have always been sparse and part of the main cast (excluding spin-offs and stuff like Rush Adventure, where it's justified).

    I mean, consistency is the last thing you should look for in the modern "continuity", but these things are still worth pointing out. It's clear that Sonic Team just does whatever, depending on the direction they're going for. The only problem is that they can't decide what they want Sonic to be.
     
  14. Hitlersaurus Christ

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    According to one of the people talking about the series bible that mentions the two world thing only male hedgehogs going super etc, (don't remember who) the Sonic's world is literally just called Sonic's World. There's no actual name for it.
     
  15. Dark Sonic

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    Heaven forbid they just called it Mobius. Nope. Sonic's World is much better.
     
  16. Beltway

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    Sonic Team rarely --if ever-- incorporate stuff made from the Western branches or outsourced material into their Sonic canon / Sonic bible.

    Like, the only things I can think of off the top of my head are chili dogs being Sonic's favorite food (Western cartoons), Ivo Robotnik being Eggman's middle name (the former story canon for Sonic conjured up by Sega West prior to the Adventure rebranding), and Shadow's inhibitor ring bracelets (the Sonic X anime).
     
  17. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Oh yea I realize they don't. Just that at least the western lore had a name for Sonic's planet while Sonic Team has had nothing forever. If they're that creatively bankrupt that they can't name a planet, well hey there's one.
     
  18. SpeedStarTMQ

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    It's Earth in Sonic Adventure 2!

    "He's controlling the Space Colony as it is falling to Earth! He has become one with the Space Colony, and is determined to keep it on its collision course!!"

    At this point I'm no longer upset with the games SEGA's cranking out, but I'm just not interested in 3D Sonic anymore. It used to have appeal based on it's edgier characters, it's interesting and varied locales, and it's shared details between games (i.e. references to various locations between the Dreamcast era titles which also tie in to the lore of the Classics).

    Modern Sonic just either re-uses existing locations, or has them exclusively set on a slightly less exciting Earth than any titles before 2006. Everything just seems so much more generic. Story seems more generic and excludes obvious stuff long-time fans expect. Locations seem more generic without the Sonic-flare they should have such as chequered hills. Gameplay is samey and restricted to set paths. Eh. Oh well.
     
  19. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

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    Okay, I'm back from work. I've just checked the Japanese cutscenes for Colors (along with Windii's translation) and it looks like "Sonic's World" isn't a thing over there. Eggman's plan is a lot more general. I suspect Lost World is the same.

    [​IMG]

    I had a feeling it was an English script thing from the start, whereas Japan's version seems to remain consistent with the other previous Sonic titles at least.
    Also forgive my shit attempt at romanizing the Japanese words. I'd type the Hiragana/Katakana out if I hadn't messed up my language packs...

    So I guess Sonic Team aren't 100% to blame on this one.
     
  20. MiSHiKiS

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    I made a mention earlier wondering how the Game Grumps managed to get a copy of Forces early (according to Arin) while no other outlets were allowed to own a copy to review until release date, but while I thought they may have just gotten an early copy from vendors, in the first few seconds of this part, Arin mentions getting the game with the PS4 from SEGA, and having to actually buy the game later

    https://youtu.be/u9ONSKHJvJ8

    So if anything, than yah, I guess the Game Grumps were the sole exception to the withheld copies lol