Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Blue Blood, Jul 23, 2016.
Is Light of Hope the song from Imperial tower?
Nope, it's not. But I guess the title fits.
Is there a clothing unlock guide anywhere? Does anyone know what unlocks the black leather jacket and the white leather jacket?
It's after you get the Smooth Criminal hidden achievement, where you put one of the clown noses on and change your skin color.
Just kidding, trash this post if you want.
Uh huh. Who do you blame for the failure of Sonic Forces? If not Sonic Team then who?
That's not the point. We get it, Sonic Team screwed up, and they're probably in for some major restructuring. Doesn't change the fact that your posts read like YouTube comments.
It's not about if you're right or not, it's about the way you talk. I honestly feel uncomfortable when you take part on a conversation, not just because of your words, but also because of what you think others are telling to you instead of what they're really saying, like you're on a really different alternate reality. And, Sonic Team aside, you're often far from being polite to people here.
Back on topic, and to answer your question, Forces is not a failure if a lot of people is buying it, because that's their goal. Even pissed-off fans around here still give a chance to new games that look like garbage, and many people, here or not, don't think the game's garbage. It's just a failure for us (you, me, many people) that want 3&K or Mania tier Sonic 3D games to come out and get frustrated because it doesn't happen. Well, that's our problem, probably not theirs, because it seems they're fulfilling their goals about selling the game for profit.
Conclusion: You don't like the game? Don't buy it, I haven't. When another game comes out, we'll check, we'll judge again under our own criteria, but, meanwhile, Sega will still only listen to the money they earned. Do you want something better? Learn and make your own 3D fangame instead of shitposting, we already now this is shit for classic games-only fans.
Well, going by the timeline on the previous page, it would seem that Big Red Button, Sega of America, Sega of Europe, and Nintendo potentially played some causal role in the end product we see. The development really sounds like it was a clusterfuck.
Also, Sonic Team isn't one person. If we wanted to put the most blame on one person, though, I'd probably place it on Morio Kishimoto. This guy, and whoever keeps putting him in charge of Sonic games (is it Iizuka? A higher up at Sega?), could probably do with getting the boot, or working on a different project, or not being the one to call major shots; something. Also, bringing back the level designers from Unleashed and/or Generations could probably help (none of them were in Forces; only two of them were in Lost World, and Generations' lead level designer wasn't one of them). Perhaps a lead programmer who can help Sonic not feel like ass during basic platforming segments?
No "disbanding" necessary, they just need to put their best feet forward again. Looking at the staff, Forces really feels like a backburner "B Team" kind of game, very phoned in; and its development sounds like it was hell on top of that. If that's not a perfect storm, I don't know what is.
The more I examine Forces, the more tone-deaf it feels. We already briefly covered how the English version is inconsistent about making the tone variably darker or lighter compared to the Japanese version, but this is the same game where it's perfectly fine for people to beat up other people with their bare hands but hitting someone with the Piko Piko Hammer is censored by showing it just off-screen and everyone's family-friendly laser guns never hit a goddamn thing despite it being perfectly okay for Infinite to explicitly kill a bunch of far-away people on-screen with explosions. This is also the same game where Sonic cracks jokes on a dime and Eggman has terabytes of selfies/mustache pics and simultaneously Eggman wants to wipe out the Resistance in what could've been the most deadly and threatening plan in the entire franchise - and it gets dissolved entirely by courage and his plans fumbled by an idiot egotist on his own side and the power of friendship yet again.
Even the Eggman robots try to be darker and edgier but are just kind of lame, and yet their slow-moving energy shots create stock bullet ricochet effects when they hit a wall or the floor.
Kishimoto's not a great designer/director, but I doubt he's really at fault for this game's overall shittiness. The staff members in general for this title are comprised of people who either haven't worked with Sonic before, or are just newbs in general. When you look at Kishimoto's track record, it's very clear he does certain things well. He has good points, but most of the time they have to be tethered to really shitty decisions that might not have been his. I doubt anyone at Sonic Team specifically is "bad" at what they do, but they need to be brought together and directed in such a specific way. If anything blame the producer and higher ups for picking him and such a shitty team in general. But this also shows that, "new blood" from Sonic Team isn't going to cut the mustard. We could bring back the level designers, programmers, and staff from Unleashed and Generations...but then we'd just get a game that's as good as Generations. Better than what we've had sure, but not exactly "pushing the series forward". As long as Sonic games are tied to these mechanics, this style, this team, I don't think we'll ever get anything that's more than above average. It's a bit unfair of me to say that, given that we haven't really seen the extent of their ingenuity with this series, but they've had 20+ years to show that, and they haven't. Laughingcow's being over dramatic and ridiculous, but he has a point. Sonic Team's track record speaks for itself. And if whatever complications or poor conditions they keep having don't improve, or they don't find ways to work through them (keep in mind 90's Sonic Team didn't have it all sunshine and rainbows either), I don't see a reason to keep giving them a chance.
It's worth noting that my signature is a quote from "the blog sega doesn't want you to read" which dates before unleashed. It's from someone who worked internally at Sega.
It's nothing ridiculous, just the sad situation where terminating Sonic Team (not necessarily firing but moving them into other Sega branches) seems to be the right thing to do.
It ain't pleasant but all other options lead to games that are received worst than Metroid Other M (see metacritic scores).
Butting in here for a moment, but I object big-time to the idea that Forces is only a failure to those that want the 3&K equivalent of a 3D Sonic game (as in, a 3D game that utterly knocks it out of the park). That is completely absurd. Forces has been constantly criticized for being noticeably inferior to its predecessor (Sonic Generations), a game that was well-liked but popularly criticized in various ways. Forces is a substantial regression when it should have been an improvement (or at the very least just as good). I had a great time with Unleashed, Colors, and Generations, but Forces is totally repulsive to me as someone who has enjoyed this sort of style. Also, I think the story is a disastrous, hokey misfire and that sure isn't helping.
I've bought nearly every 3D Sonic game, but passing on Forces was really easy. Given the game's missteps, quality, and critical reception combined I'll be shocked if this game doesn't underperform in the end.
Nobody else wants to read your blogtier whining either.
Can't you take your babbling to Gamefaqs or YouTube or something?
Removing Sonic Team entirely probably isn't that necessary or realistic. Forces' biggest issue (the level design) was because existing Sonic Team/Sega talent just wasn't used. I'd be more willing to handwave the clumsy, practically broken plot if the levels were large, involving, and intricate (like Generations' Seaside Hill). Although ideally, Sonic games should have a fuckton more care put into their stories and writing if those things are going to have a focus.
Still, I can understand not having any love for Sonic Team at all. 3D Sonic games just haven't reflected much interest in adapting the classic gameplay fundamentals. Whether this be out of disinterest, managerial direction, lack of specific knowledge, or whatever else, the fact is that 3D Sonic Team games have historically diverged considerably from the foundation of those well-loved classic games. If you really wanted 3D Sonic to more faithfully adapt that, Sonic Team has continued not to do so over many years and projects.
Sonic Team needs better level designers and some quality control. Someone (Iizuka?) to say "hey, this controls pretty poorly" or "that's not a good idea" (sounds like SoA and SoE did this with Forces' original form, so maybe just consult them more?).
That and to be able to work on their other IPs more often. Let Nakamura make a Samba de Amigo or Billy Hatcher. Let Iizuka try making another NiGHTS. Finally make another damn Chu Chu Rocket. Hell, why not try an entirely new IP?
I'd actually be pretty down for a new Chu Chu Rocket game. The online multiplayer would be pretty tight, new puzzles and level sharing would be ace!
We've been discussing the underuse of other IPs ever since I joined Retro, which was a while ago... I don't think that Sega has changed much.
As for Sonic, I am concerned about the future. Mania was possibly just a miracle due to Forces, and all 3D Sonics after Unleashed have just been reductions in quality, good tech (hacky downgrades and edits to engines), manpower, and talent distribution. This applies more to Lost World and Forces, but the pattern still starts to emerge in Colors when it comes to questionable level design. Blocky platforming everywhere and corridor 3D segments. Generations was better, but looking at Crisis City modern the entire 2D section is a terrible flow-breaker. It seems that Forces just has the corridors because there weren't enough (any) experienced level designers / mappers to make anything more complex.
Has to be said. If you're going to write blog entries, there are places online to do that.
Still haven't played nor bought the game yet though I've been meaning to. By comparison I pre-ordered Mania weeks before and played it seconds after it went live. The negative reviews for Forces (both on here and elsewhere) made me hold off. Might do what Dark Sonic did and play it in a "Sonic Adventure 2 in overdrive" kind of way with copious amounts of alcohol on hand. Could be a fun few hours.
Out of interest did anyone here genuinely enjoy the game and think it was decent?
Separate names with a comma.