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Sonic Forces Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Blue Blood, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

    DON'T TRUST THIS MAN Member
    That ending wasn't really exclusive to Hyper Knuckles though. You can get that same one in both S3&K and standalone S&K by just collecting the Chaos Emeralds, which gives you the same good ending with just regular Knuckles. (See 6:38 in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJg6ItSKvt0). Considering you can get this ending and the Chaos Emeralds returning to Hidden Palace in the same run, I feel like it fits with both the Modern series and Mania's representation of Hidden Palace.
     
  2. /dev/sr0

    /dev/sr0

    Member
    Super Knuckles is in S&K alone though. I think Iizuka said somewhere that in the "modern" series, only male hedgehogs can go super. If that's true, S&K can't be canon.

    Edit: Maybe S&K alone didn't happen in the main dimension because the ending of Sonic 3 alone (death egg exploding) prevents it?
    Iizuka also once said Chaotix only happened in the classic dimension, so un-canonizing entire home console games from the main series isn't out of the question.
     
  3. Linkabel

    Linkabel

    Member
    That's where the bonus part Sir_mihael was talking about comes into play. Yes, you can be Super/Hyper Knuckles and Super Tails in gameplay as bonuses.

    But in the story only Super Sonic matters because he actually affects it.
     
  4. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

    DON'T TRUST THIS MAN Member
    Yeah, pretty much this.

    Sonic & Knuckles can certainly be (and obviously is :v: ) canon even if Super Knuckles isn't, but again we're down to personal opinions on that one.
    For me personally in both S3&K and Mania, everything outside of Super Sonic (who has a clear part to play in the games' storylines) is just a gameplay bonus. Meanwhile the Super Emeralds (or should I say, the Chaos Emeralds returning to Angel Island and returning to their original form) are something that has been referenced in both Classic and Modern games.

    I'd definitely take anything Iizuka says with a pinch of salt at best though, he's got the Shigeru Miyamoto art of "oh shit let's answer this question so I can end this quickly" well studied.
     
  5. Chaos Rush

    Chaos Rush

    AKA J.Matz Member
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    This is why I don't take the canon seriously. The “canon” explanation for why the Moon after SA2 is back to normal is just something he came up with on the spot, “well uhh the moon flipped”.
     
  6. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

    DON'T TRUST THIS MAN Member
    I love how fucking Sonic X of all things gave us the closest thing to a real explanation. Eggman can really make amends when he needs to!
     
  7. Yuzu

    Yuzu

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    I hate to be a broken record but can Naofumi Hataya become the primary composer of the 3D Sonic games moving forwards?

    :v:
     
  8. Josh

    Josh

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    I compared a few modern Sonic stages in Generations to a few from Forces, paying attention to how much complexity there was to the stage design, how frequently I was given a choice, and how often the stage required me to DO anything but boost. Here's what I came away with...

    The fun in Generations was based around YOUR SKILL making spectacular things happen, and how good it felt to earn that. The layout constantly required input from you, making choices, squeezing through shortcuts, and occasionally letting up to give you a breather. Aside from Green Hill, places where you could just boost without thinking about it were only done for pacing, they were kept short, and they frequently still required SOME kind of skill or input. (The major exception is probably the truck at the end of City Escape.)

    In Forces, in contrast, not only do the stages frequently feel like they've been made in some custom stage builder. Not only do they almost all end before they even make an impact...

    The major problem is just how little they actually ASK of the player. Spectacular things just HAPPEN when you press and hold the X button, and there's hardly any complexity beyond occasionally choosing a path. Levels aren't dense and complex, like in Generations, nor are they long, winding affairs taking you through challenges, like in Unleashed, NOR are they full of fun gimmicks and variety like in Colors. If a classic Sonic game was designed with the same principals, you would just hold right while Sonic handled the rest. And just like "hold right to win" was a ridiculous insult, "boost to win" has been an exaggeration until now, but Forces IS largely designed that way.

    Ultimately, Sonic Forces feels more than I ever expected it to like Sonic Team ONCE AGAIN tried to build a Sonic game for people who don't actually enjoy playing Sonic games, who stop playing after the first level when the speedy spectacle requires any kind of skill.
     
  9. Pengi

    Pengi

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    Classic Sonic has gotten the reverse Eggman Nega treatment. Nega was originally said to be from Blaze's dimension, then they changed their mind and said that he's actually from the future, like Silver. Classic Sonic was said to be from the past in Generations, but now the official stance is that he's from another dimension. As with Nega, there probably won't be a full explanation for the discrepancies.

    Sonic Adventure was something of a soft-reboot for the series anyway. Characters got redesigned, Amy was changed from an 8 year old to a 12 year old, the Master/Chaos Emerald shrine and its location were changed and so on. Sonic Heroes then gave Vector, Espio and Charmy a complete reboot.

    Sonic Adventure and Sonic 4 did establish a history for Modern Sonic though. So the events of Sonic 1, 2, 3 & Knuckles and CD all happened, but perhaps slightly differently. So perhaps Amy was always 12 and always wore a red dress (as in the Sonic Adventure flashback), the Master Emerald was always located outdoors and so on.

    Meanwhile in the Classic Sonic dimension, Amy is 8 years old, Sonic 4 never happened, Sonic Mania did happen, Chaotix did happen, the Master Emerald is in the Hidden Palace and so on.
     
  10. Chimera

    Chimera

    I'm not a furry. Tech Member
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    he did and thats the stupidest shit in the world

    maybe consider everything's made up on the fly and there is no plot because iizuka/steam's a fucking hack lol

     
  11. Considering Wavemaster is basically a shadow of its former early 2000s self, maybe it's for the best.
     
  12. Sable

    Sable

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    Cutscenes are 24FPS 1920x1080 video files cropped down by bars overlayed on top of them, they switch to realtime rendering when the avatar is onscreen
     
  13. RikohZX

    RikohZX

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    It boggles my mind because while video files are less likely to glitch out or so forth than real time in-engine, the Avatar scenes show that they were entirely possible to keep it all real time.
     
  14. Lanzer

    Lanzer

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    https://s.famitsu.com/news/201711/11145786.html

    If google is correct, then Nakamura is saying that full scale development of Forces only started a year or so ago. the other years were as like we thought, engine and concept development.
     
  15. Glaber

    Glaber

    Has Beaten Sonic Genesis for GBA Oldbie
    The more things change, the more they stay the same. Well on the plus side, I feel they did a decent job trying to remake the boost engine, even if it does feel better with the d-buttons instead of the analogue stick.
     
  16. Turbohog

    Turbohog

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    It took them years to make the hedgehog engine worse. Props to Sonicteam.
     
  17. TheKazeblade

    TheKazeblade

    "Our Life is More than a Side-Effect" Member
    I'm extremely curious to hear if the work on the engine had an abrupt about-face when it came time to produce the final product. From what I understand, it's sounding like Forces used Lost World's framework as a template which begs the question of what kind of engine-related elements were being explored in the three years prior to concerted effort towards the title.
     
  18. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    Atomic Sonic Part II
    What are you on about?
     
  19. synchronizer

    synchronizer

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    It's the lighting engine, not the gameplay engine.
     
  20. Beltway

    Beltway

    The most grateful Sonic fan of all time this week Member
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    The Google translate also states that Nakamura got a small team together to get the ball rolling on production (which arguably explains everything about the new designers / planners brought in and the state of the game's level design overall).

    Probably better to wait for an accurate translation to come in, but if is indeed true, I'm really not shocked. Nothing about Forces looked like a game made over the course of four years at all. Several of us called it/speculated it months ago when the JP Sonic website during the 25th anniversary event posted this slide, and it was translated into "Project Sonic 2017 start!". The rebuttal was that it was referring to Forces's announcement, rather than its development...but uh, potential vindication much?

    [​IMG]

    As for the Hedgehog Engine discussion, while Turbohog was presumably using it in reference to the gameplay I do think Forces hardly looks better than past Boost titles like Generations and Unleashed. The former two titles look more visually impressive despite running on older hardware. Really makes you wonder what Sonic Team has been doing this entire time.