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Sonic Forces Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Blue Blood, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

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    Yeah, this part confused me as well. If you take the Prequel comics as canon, then Eggman found the phantom ruby in front of his doorstep one day, but I guess decided to make more of them because they're super cool shit. His attempts to make others ended up being just failed 'Prototypes' that weren't nearly as hot shit as the real deal, so he just shoved the real thing into Infinite. That's my take, anyway.
    At least the comic implies that it's most probably the same ruby from Mania to begin with.

    For me, Sonic Team not even bothering to put Green Hill on South Island anymore (unless the whole game, city an' all is actually on one fukken huge South Island? I guess if you wanted to explain the Animal-only population, but that would involve taking the game's world map with a pinch of salt.), and no epilogue explaining what the funk happened to Infinite and Eggman are some of more annoying story offenders for me.
    Also, I swear Forces contradicts itself regarding the Phantom Ruby powers, on top of contradicting Mania.

    All in all it's best to think about as much as Sonic Team did: Not at all.
     
  2. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

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    I think that's a version of what I'm trying to argue here. There's nothing in Forces that hints that the Ruby came from the modernverse first, then went back to classic. Quite the opposite, actually (you see the gem fall into the portal 'with' classic sonic). The ending of Sonic Forces makes 'no' hint of the ruby going 'back' to the classicverse.

    The nice thing about this approach is it takes us back to the point where Mania's story can exist independent of Forces if one wishes. Yes, the Ruby is in both games, but you can assume Sonic just got sent home at the end of the game rather than into the modernverse if you wish. Chances are, when classic sonic vanishes back to his "dimension" at the end of Forces, he ends up somewhere close to the time when he left anyway, so to characters in that world, it's probably like he never really left, and the Ruby is just gone.

    This way, Forces can't exist without Mania (classic sonic needs 'some' reason to show up), sure, but Mania can exist without Forces.
     
  3. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    After this game can Eggman stop fucking around with other gem macguffins? Just stick to the Chaos Emeralds please :v:
     
  4. Laughingcow

    Laughingcow

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    And Robotisizing animals instead of pointlessly murdering everyone. What use is an empire without subjects?

    Really, it ain't fucking hard to write a Sonic the Hedgehog storyline.

    On that note, Infinite can come back in a future game, he just needs to be a Jobber/boss fight like Metal.
     
  5. Glaber

    Glaber

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    Funny you bring that up as I came to the conclusion that the whole thing, minus the death egg, was on South Island. What made me come to this conclusion was several things including not just Green Hill, but the Mystic Jungle and the location of Metropolis and the Eggman Empire Fortress.

    I'll need to use a map of South Island to illustrate a few things though, but Sonic 1 8 bit has what looks like a city area in the mountain region of the island. I can only assume that the Eggman Empire Fortress what Scrap brain became after Eggman's 2 defeats there. Mystic Jungle would have been 8-bit's Jungle Zone, the City is an area not previously explored, but may have been the city seen from Spring Yard Zone, Green Hill is what it is and takes up the middle left of the island, and Chemical Plant, well that's brand new. Who says the one on West Island has to be the only one?

    Heck, Starlight Zone (witch was clearly a construction zone and just outside the Scrap Brain/Labyrinth area) could be what became Forces' Metropolis.

    I know, it's kind of a stretch using both Sonic 1 8 and 16 bit, but I can't think of any other way to justify that we've been on South Island for most of the game. (and if you're wondering about Labyrinth, it's an underground zone, you're not going to see that pop up though Scrap Brain)
     
  6. It is. First "Classic Sonic" isn't from the past, but from "another dimension"

    Ok...so why does Modern Sonic know about the Death Egg's history? After all, he said "That big ball of scrap just doesn't stay destroyed"
     
  7. Sean Evans

    Sean Evans

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    I actually kinda like the idea of other mystical items for Eggman to mess with once in a while. Having the Chaos Emerald inexplicably be the plot tokens of any given story is so trope-y even the game have given up on them. Like do we even know how the Chaos Emeralds and Dark Gaia are related in Unleashed? Did the echidna tribe owe some other ancient society a favor; so they built temples that just so happen to not only recharge the emeralds, but also use them to put the planet together? It'd be cool if they came across other ancient stuff and tried to use it build up the world more. I'd be willing to deal with other macguffins if the game at least tries to explain what they are. We still don't know shit about the Phantom Ruby, or where it even came from.
     
  8. Aesculapius Piranha

    Aesculapius Piranha

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    I think they are going full Marvel here. Alternate universe characters are similar and go through the exact same stuff in similar ways but with altered design choices unless otherwise noted.

    Not saying that isn't stupid in Marvel too. Just saying I think that is what we are left to assume.
     
  9. Creature SH

    Creature SH

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    Yeah, the idea is probably that Modern Sonic lived through events similar to the 16-bit games, but with more bad one-liners.
     
  10. Problem is, in Generations they've already established "Classic" as Modern's....past.
     
  11. Laughingcow

    Laughingcow

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    Question: Why couldn't the Phantom Ruby be the timestone equivalent of the Master Emerald? Would explain everything.

    Also, should we make a new thread about story and Canon in Sonic games? We're starting to get off the subject of Forces if we start moving to other games like Unleashed.
     
  12. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

    DON'T TRUST THIS MAN Member
    Yeah you more or less called it how I tried to justify it in my head. A mass of land that contains Green Hill, next to a modern City (Spring Yard) with an Eggman base up on a mountain bit and no human characters to be seen? Despite Eggman's takeover of the entire world, the main story focus is on this one main land mass where Eggman's forces are mostly concentrated. At this point I'm thinking "fuck it, let's just call that South Island.", and at least maintain some continuity amongst the mess that is the rest of Forces' plot.

    The way I see it, Classic and Modern Sonic were the same Sonic until Generations. Classic Sonic returns home and starts a new timeline where Mania happens instead of everything else, so he's now an alternate Sonic rather than just 'past Sonic'. Granted, "another dimension" is a shitty way to write it, as the game outright tells us it's the same classic Sonic from Generations, so we know Modern Sonic still went through the events of every Classic game minus Mania.
     
  13. Dr. Mecha

    Dr. Mecha

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    If you ask me, I believe Sonic Team only Green lit Mania on the condition that they shoehorn in the Phantom Ruby into the plot so that they can tie it to Forces.
     
  14. Same.
     
  15. You know what I'd like to see from Sega to show they actually give a shit about the fans? An entire reform series based on the idea of fixing all the 3D games they've shat out over the past 15 years. Think about it:

    -Sonic Adventure without the fishing
    -Sonic Adventure 2 with better Treasure Hunting/Shooting Stages
    -Sonic Heroes with better control
    -Sonic 06 without everything
    -Unleashed without the were hog
    -Colors with more 3D
    -Lost World with better Wisp implementation
    -Sonic Forces without the horrid level design

    All this, with modern graphics and rewritten stories, filling in SA2's potholes, making 06 less ridiculous, giving Lost World an actual story.

    It's the dream that will never come true. :rolleyes:
     
  16. Laughingcow

    Laughingcow

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    Well, that's cause it's a bad idea. There would need to be a MASSIVE spike in budget on the levels of the first Shenmue. Even then, there is the same problem as Shenmue of making a profit.

    If you just want to fill in story plotholes, you could do that with a cheaper medium like say, a Comic Book. Or just a simple Artbook/guide like they did with Zelda.

    Fixing gameplay and level design issues simply aren't feasible from a business standpoint.

    Except adding DLC to Sonic Mania. Safe to say everyone wants that. Or remastering Sonic 3 and Knuckles (we'll just patch in the music ourselves, just like with CD's vocals).
    Maybe a remaster of Knuckles Chaotix but tha'd be pushing it.
     
  17. That does worry me a bit, in that any future Mania games would have to tie in with awful main series plots
     

  18. Oh yeah I know how unfeasible the idea is. I was thinking more along the lines of the disaster that copyrighting and crediting would be. On top of all the music licensing and other issues. It would be extremely expensive and the legal team would be on thin ice. On top of Sonic Team being just plain incompetent.
     
  19. MiSHiKiS

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    Something just came to mind, in game, Tails explains the Phantom Ruby as a gem that basically causes hallucinations in someone's mind. So was the sun Eggman got at the end supposed to be a hallucination? Was his goal was to just have a bunch of random people losing their minds in fake pain on the ground..?
     
  20. qwertysonic

    qwertysonic

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    No it's like the Matrix. If your mind thinks its dead, you die in real life.