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Sonic Forces Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Blue Blood, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. Aquova

    Aquova

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    I'll be watching the stream eagerly, but so far, Sonic 17 hasn't left left the best impression with me. As much as I like the boost games, I don't feel like SEGA has much room to really improve on the formula, I thought maybe they'd get one or two more boost games post-Generations. Them moving on to a new control scheme with Lost World was a decision I agreed with (regardless of how mediocre the result was). Going back to a boost-style game with a return of the dark, serious plot and bringing back Classic Sonic seems to me like they have a lack of direction and are just doing what the fans want. I don't really want to be negative, but after a 4+ year gap between games, I hoped they would've come up with something really original in that time.

    That being said, we really don't know anything about the game, so who knows? Maybe the presentation on Thurs will really impress me.
     
  2. Atendega

    Atendega

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    Where'd you get the impression that this was a "boost game"? We haven't seen any gameplay :v:
     
  3. TimmiT

    TimmiT

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    While all we have is a CG trailer, modern Sonic does boost in it. And if his abilities in the trailer are meant to reflect his in-game abilities, it's pretty likely that it's a return to boost gameplay.
     
  4. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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  5. SonicGenesis89

    SonicGenesis89

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    I don't know if this game is going to be a boost game because a while back when the game was first being announced they said that it's going to have a whole new gameplay style that we haven't seen or played yet before.
     
  6. Turbohog

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    I don't think they said that. This is a boost game. The same team made Colors and Generations. Sonic boosts in the trailer. Boost boost boost.
     
  7. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    That's not what Iizuka said at all. All he said was that it's a new game, nor a sequel. That doesn't really day anything about the gameplay. With any luck, it won't be long before we find out now. I'm still miffed that Classic Sonic is back in this, but I'm feeling pretty confident is going to be interesting regardless.

    One thing I'm worried about though is the Switch version. If possible, I really want the Switch to be my go-to system of the generation. I'm a Nintendo gamer and like handhelds where possible, so it makes sense. But it'll be a shame if the game is significantly worse in any way on the Switch than other platforms. There's got to be some kind of graphical discrepancies, but if the game is at least on part with Generations on the Switch I'll be satisfied. I'll most likely get the game on PS4 and/or PC too though.
     
  8. Beltway

    Beltway

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    Honestly I'm expecting Sonic Team to use the Switch hardware as the baseline for the game's performance, since it's the weakest of the platforms it will be releasing on. That is to say, I can see them designing the game with the Switch's horsepower and performance in mind first, with the PS4/XBO/PC versions being secondary. Which may allow for mostly consistent performance across all versions, but it certainly won't make Sonic 2017 a graphical showcase of a game for the eighth-generation. We're likely not getting an "Unleashed 2.0" in terms of visuals.

    And speaking of which, if they're still using a (likely compromised for optimization) Hedgehog Engine for Sonic 2017....lol. They need to get off that dead horse and either invest in a superior replacement engine or use a third-party one.
     
  9. Jimmy Hedgehog

    Jimmy Hedgehog

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    Did I miss something? I thought people saw the Hedgehog Engine as a good graphical engine? Also why would it need to be compromised, didn't Sonic Lost World on the Wii U use it? The Switch is more powerful than the Wii U last I checked.
     
  10. Dark Sonic

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    Well the Hedgehog engine will be 9 years old by the time this game is likely released (Older since it was developed before/during Unleashed). I would have to imagine that there are better ways now to achieve similar, if not better, results. If 2017 was still using it though this would probably be its first chance to actually shine, as it caused Unleashed to chug since it couldn't keep up with the hardware and it was cutback for Generations and then cutback even more for Lost World.

    On the boost topic, I actually liked the boost gameplay. While we have no confirmation yet, the trailer did point out Generations and Colors which is a pretty good indicator of the game's direction. I just hope they've improved things to make everything seem less scripted (particularly for Classic Sonic). Honestly I wouldn't mind them taking a few notes from Lost World though, the wall running and some of the parkour movements had potential.
     
  11. Ritz

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    You guys act like engines aren't maintained over time. Development today is a process of accretion: if a company needs to scrap an engine entirely and start from scratch, they've either fucked up royally, or the hardware landscape has changed radically enough that they can't retrofit their old technology, and that's not happening for, like, another 10 years maybe.

    Unless they decide they need to take advantage of VR for some reason. [​IMG]
     
  12. Beltway

    Beltway

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    Considering in the nine years since its introduction, they've never been able to get it decently optimized for consoles without being forced to scale back its functionality, I'm going with the first possibility ("they fucked up royally"). Even though the engine was in development for three years (starting in 2005), Unleashed on 360 struggled to keep a consistent 30fps; and the PS3 version had a uncapped framerate, but also had inconsistent run times. Sometimes it would run at 60fps, other times it ran like a slideshow. They had to dial back the shaders and other effects to get it running at a more consistent 30fps framerate on consoles for Generations (PC port could run at 60fps), and Lost World is to date the only game they were able to get the engine running on 60fps for consoles, even granted that game as a whole (especially in its more simple, stylized artstyle) is an apple amongst the oranges that were the preceding boost games.

    Moreover, the engine also has other issues. The engine uses models and textures with low details / resolution (which the GI / lighting is used to mask), which makes it even more surprising the engine has constant framerate issues if you don't dial the effects down. It's heavily data-intensive, and the way it loads portions of levels is very old-hat. Might I also add that Sega actually intended to license the Hedgehog Engine to other third-party developers....which never happened. It's only been used for the aforementioned three Sonic games (with Unleashed being the only game to acknowledge the engine's use in the game's opening credits). No doubt because the Hedgehog Engine isn't even really versatile for its use, it's arguably designed exclusively for the boost gameplay in mind, and isn't well-equipped to be used for other styles of games. The Hedgehog Engine could be said to be technically outdated even around the time of its release, and Sonic Team hasn't really shown to actually improve the engine from the baseline they initially set with Unleashed--presumably because Yoshihisa Hashimoto, the lead architect of the engine --and Unleashed's director-- jumped ship to Square Einx shortly after Unleashed's release. Even its' biggest selling point --rendering maps for GIA maps-- can be done way better by other engines out there (citing one example, CryEngine 3 can do this feature in real-time).

    The HE is a detriment to Sonic games, and Sega/Sonic Team would be better off with a vastly superior replacement engine or ponying up cash for a third-party engine. (Colors, for what it's worth, was able to produce graphics that could be said to be comparably visually stunning on a different internal engine, despite being on much weaker hardware.)
     
  13. Turbohog

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    You sure are passionate about the hedgehog engine. Honestly, I'm glad they've stuck with the same engine for a while. I'm not a fan of boost gameplay, but I think Sonic team's games have suffered a lot in the past due to changing engines completely every two games.
     
  14. Dark Sonic

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    Perhaps, but they haven't done anything since Lost world and that was like 3 or 4 years ago. They've had time.
     
  15. TimmiT

    TimmiT

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    Lost World being 3-4 years old doesn't necessarily mean that this game has been 3-4 years in development though. It's possible that Sonic Team did some other stuff before really beginning development on Project Sonic 2017. That could be developing non-Sonic projects (if Sega's Wikipedia article isn't bullshit it appears that Sonic Team does work on non-Sonic games, the Sonic Team label just isn't used on them), prototyping various ideas for the next project, developing a game that was ultimately cancelled, etc.

    For example: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword was released in November 2011. However, that doesn't mean the development team immediately started development with Breath of the Wild. In fact, development on BotW didn't start in earnest until around January 2013.
     
  16. Atendega

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    I would argue that those are the two most recent Sonic games that were mostly approved of by critics. They're showing off general competency, I wouldn't take that as a statement on what the game itself will play like.
     
  17. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Valid, but those 2 games did feature the boost gameplay and it was pretty well received, so it would make sense for them to back petal a bit and go back to that. I still stand by that being the most solid base they've had for 3D Sonic yet.
     
  18. Aquova

    Aquova

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    I like Colors and Generations as much as the next guy, but I don't think the boost style has much room to really grow and improve. Consider Mario who has continuously expanded upon its central control scheme (and even that is starting to be a little stale). I think a few more boost game would've been fine, but after moving away from it, going back seems like a double edged sword.

    Although to be honest, I'm more concerned about Classic Sonic being in the game rather than boost Sonic.
     
  19. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    The boost games are the the most consistent that 3D Sonic has ever been. They've allowed the style to improve, but not without taking significant liberties with scripted events. Virtually everything in those games is determined by splines, creating an incredibly rigid experience that's only fun if you play it the exact way it wants to to play it. It even extends to Classic Sonic in Generations, which is more boost than it is Classic style really.

    I want them to go about making a more organic experience, like Sonic originally was. Sticking with the boost gameplay will make that especially difficult in 3D. Lost World had so many of the right ideas, and did them a terribly.
     
  20. TimmiT

    TimmiT

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    I agree with there being plenty of room for improvement with boost gameplay. I can imagine it being a whole lot better if they'd make it less scripted and more player-controlled.