Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Blue Blood, Jul 23, 2016.
Am I missing something or is Shadow's Mystic Jungle stupidly hard to S Rank?
Okay so maybe "dumpster fire" was a little too harsh. But these reviews and scores man. It's reviewing terribly and not even the ardent Sonic super fans (Stadium/TSSZ) are saving it but instead giving it the harshest reviews. I think I'm so disappointed because I posted at length on both Retro and NeoGAF over and over again over the years about how I had such high hopes for the game given the presumed lengthy development time (which we're all now coming to the realisation may not have been 4 years but potentially 2 after failed prototypes) and how super optimistic I was that Sonic Team were going to do outdo Generations and knock it out of the park.
It doesn't help that upon the game's initial reveal when all we had was 30 seconds of footage and some awesome concept art most of us had hoped our endless speculation was going to be proven correct and the game was going to be astounding. I'm just disappointed. I've been buying Sonic games day one since the god damn Master System so it's just sad to see Sonic take a hit like this. To be more positive for a moment I can only hope Sega take a good hard look at the critical and commercial reception for both Forces and Mania and then that steers Sonic in a better direction moving forward. Sonic Mania 2 has to happen and after this I hope 3D Sonic goes on the back burner for a while and Sega's next 3D effort results in a better game.
We had glimmers of hope with Generations and Colours and our dreams came true with Mania. I'm just not liking seeing Sonic fall again here. Particularly after Mania.
I never underestimate the zealotry of the Sonic fanbase as a whole, especially of the sect this game is targeting. It's everything they were asking for on paper, with poor execution. I think this is a pill they'll swallow for it.
Will it attract new or lapsed players? No. It's for that vocal portion of the fanbase, and I think they're just as large as the volume of content they put online.
Wait was that it? 2 hours (If that) of game comprised of copy paste jobs from Generations and rehashed ideas from other games? Like I enjoyed it enough but plot wise and game wise it feels like the beginning fifth of a game. What were they doing for four years? And good lord the out of tune singing in Fist Bump is grating.
Lol I was gonna suggest that as a community we protest Force's mediocrity by buying a ton more copies of Mania today but knowing Sega they'd see the surge in figures and scratch their heads like the oafs they truly are.
(That whole oaf thing is just hyperbolized for the sake of a joke, but seriously, what Sonic Team has produced here is in complete contradiction to what unanimously makes Sonic good).
I'd totally be down for that. Partially because I've already planned to buy more copies of Mania anyway but it would definitely send a message.
However I do not want SEGA to think 3D sonic games are a bad idea and I fear they may already be jumping to that conclusion. 3D sonic just needs to be in different hands... and we know exactly who these different hands are.
Oh I don't deny there are groups of Sonic fans out there who will buy any Sonic game as long as the story tone, an appearing character, being "playable/not broken", or just having Sonic on the cover is heavy enough for them to warrant their money. (And honestly, Forces as a product feels so cynically thrown together it feels like a game specifically crafted for that type of audience as it is.)
I just don't think that in this day and age, those diehards alone are enough to make Sonic games successful.
How many times do I have to say it: trusting Sonic Team to make a good 3D Sonic game is like betting on a three legged horse.
Give. Nintendo. A. Crack. At. It.
So I've almost beaten the game. Didn't get to play it drunk but I smoked a bit so that's something :v:/> Anyway, this game seems to be Sonic Adventure 1 - Sonic Lost World had a baby and it's currently in its infancy. It's short and under developed but there are some fun things in there and there are some good ideas in there. Of course that line being said at this point is like that Onion article that's reposted every time after a US shooting (It's always titled "'Nothing we could do' says only nation where this happens regularly" btw). But yea, that's where this is.
Better than Lost World but the worst of the Boost series but only slightly more meh than Colors, and that's only because the magic with the boost games is kind of lost at this point. Colors came out 7 years ago, there's some nostalgia there and it's what the Modern series needed at that point, but it's not what it needs any more.
I still see this being a fun drunk game though :specialed:/> the short levels and relatively short game make this the perfect game to go back to in a drunken ADD spurt.
Also for those curious:
- Every stage has 5 red rings, those 5 number things from Lost World, and 5 moon medals that work similar to the red coins in NSMB games. Only thing is they're not in the levels at the same time. In order to get the LW numbers you need all the red rings first, and in order to get the moon medals you need the numbers. So you need to play each level a minimum of 3 times to 100% it. That's this game's method of padding I guess, but at least the levels are short
- Classic Sonic has the fewest levels by far. He doesn't have a Metropolis level and he has none of the secret/bonus zones to my knowledge.
- Shadow can't play in any of the Modern Sonic levels that have QTE segments :v:/> Nice and lazy
A team of some Sonic Retro fangame devs?
It worked the first time, so why not
I totally feel you on this. Believe me.
I was at SXSW this past March at the gameplay reveal for Forces. And, if you checked my posts from around that time, I was actually slightly more hyped about what Sonic Team had done with the last four years of development than with the then upcoming Mania. What bizarre universe I must be living in now, because I grew up eating, drinking, tattooing on my arm Sonic 3 & Knuckles. I have been waiting since the 90s to see if Sonic Team would ever nail 3D sonic gameplay and had a lot of hope in this game to show signs in that direction. Even SEGA's PR campaign in 2015 really sounded like they would make sure we were headed on that path. The rumors floating around from certain forum members who had seen an early prototype of the next 3D Sonic game.... It drove me insane. I want no other videogame as badly as an excellent 3D Sonic game that draws from the spirit of the classic gameplay. And even if I wasn't getting that, I thought having a Generations 2 was a nice consolation prize (If the summer '16 party trailer was indicative). Surely, they couldn't screw that up after spending years polishing that formula.
But after seeing the gameplay reveal in March, something happened: The gameplay looked really, really unfinished for title that was due in less than a year. In normal production cycles with most games, by the time you get the first gameplay trailer, the game is already mostly done and in the 'cleaning' phase. Mario Odyssey's trailer was at least 9 months before release and that game was probably close to finished even then.
After seeing how unfinished Forces gameplay looked...I had a creeping feeling that I couldn't make go away: this game was going to be a dud. Intuitively, I knew it immediately back then, with only 7 months before release and to finish the game....(That's what Intuition does for you)...I remember walking away from the SXSW show feeling quite low about Sonic. I complained to my fiancée about it and she just rolled her eyes like "why the f**k is this adult male who I rely on for basic responsibilities whining about this?".....but she understands my obsession. But I explained to her that I was going to Force myself to give the game a chance for the next few months, until I could see more. My great hope is that they'd at least improved minorly on Modern Sonic's levels and I knew I could have fun with those.
Well, here we are.
This is why, though I have tried over and over to support Sonic Team throughout the years, I am finished with them. Unless there is a serious changing of the guard (get Iizuka away from the games) and significant steps are taken to ensure that the next big budget title (hopefully there will be one...) is a success...I will not buy another Sonic Team produced game. I'm done. I'm out. SEGA is partially to blame here but Sonic Team from top to bottom have proven themselves unfit for even a single additional entry as far as I'm concerned. On their own, they cannot be trusted. If they're allowed to touch this series again even with a new concept for 3D Sonic (and let's face it, its entirely possible they may not be going anywhere) I won't support their effort unless, at minimum, someone from the Mania Team is brought in alongside them for authoritative council during the entire process. But if we're already at that point, they have no jusitifcation for keeping their positions and SEGA should immediately respond accordingly. If SEGA takes no action after this (I think they will. They CAN'T be that careless, right?) then I'm out completely. A SEGA that takes no action, will not even allow a hypothetical Whitehead lead main series project get off the ground in the way it needs to succeed. They'll wear them down, just like they wore down the old Sonic Team of the 90s.
So I've watched a little more gameplay and I've got to say this game is embarrassing on so many levels.
The first level is perhaps the most uninspired first level I've ever seen in a main Sonic game. It's just Green Hill from Generations, but shitty. Nothing from the level made me excited to see more.
Whatever happened to exciting the player on an opening level Sonicteam? Everyone remembers Green Hill from Sonic 1 because it was one of the best levels in the whole game. Everyone remembers City Escape for similar reasons.
Also, connecting the story together with white text on a black background sure feels cheap.
This. If you look at just 20 seconds of Odyssey gameplay, the level of quality is in a totally different league. Gameplay, graphics, sound, story, charm. It's very obvious that Nintendo has so much more pride in their product. Forces feels like Sonic Team just pushing something out the door to meet a deadline.
Metro.co.uk review: "Sonic is fast and will leave you furious"
By the by, when can we expect The Retro Review for Sonic Forces, especially since Sonic Stadium and TSSZ have already posted theirs? Who's the (un)lucky volunteer?
"There is plenty of replayability if you want it – in terms of time challenges and multiple routes through each level – but we were just thankful it was all over. Although, sadly, so too is our optimism that Sonic Mania will ever be anything other than a statistical anomaly in Sonic's long and increasingly undistinguished post-Mega Drive career."
This game, and the Sonic Franchise situation as a whole, makes me sad.
EDIT: Just saw a Hobbyconsolas review.
Guess I'm not buying this one.
Maybe I'll pirate it if they find a way to remove Denuvo.
Oh well, Mania was good so I won't give up on Sonic just yet, but it looks like for the time I may need to give up on Sonic Team. We shall see.
I still nevertheless see a 8.2 community rating on IGN. Don't know if that's meaningful or not, right now, but there are apparently people that like this game.
Goddamnit, this franchise will never go forward. It's definitely tailored for kids.
On Metacritic, the user score is 7.5. People rate like shit, anyways. There is one that says: "Pretty good sonic game, I give credit for the new idea. You will have some fun but it's only alright still a solid game." And gives it a 10, because fuck logic.
I ragequited the page after reading a guy giving it a 9, saying: "The game is not perfect, but is solid and enjoyable experience. If you aren't one of the Whitehead's balls sucker, you will enjoy it."
I shouldn't have read that. I ain't sad no more. I'm mad.
Beat Forces one day before launch thanks to getting it before launch date and well...
As in not good but not bad. Is the kind of game you play for a day or two and then you will forget the next week. If I wasnt a Sonic fan I would have played it once and asked for a refund. It's just so there, after the great platformers this year like Sonic Mania or Mario Odyssey, Forces is just not up to par. The game while similar to Generations is plague by most of it's faults and it seems Sonic Team never fixed said faults. While a game like this might have worked in 2011, in 2017 is not enough.
Honestly I would give the game a 6.5/10.
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