Sonic Forces Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Blue Blood, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. 360

    360

    Light Vision Overdrive Oldbie
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    Sonic Neon
    Lower than I expected so far in all honesty. Was hoping it'd be in the 7/10 range. As in solid not spectacular. Instead it's reviewing pretty terribly though after the leaks I guess this was inevitable. A hundred percent agree that Sonic Mania 2 needs to be green-lit next and 3D Sonic needs a break to produce something better. Honestly can't believe we went from Sonic Generations to this.

    I mean Polygon are usually quite harsh (especially on Sonic) and we're still waiting for a flood of more reviews but it's not looking good so far.
     
  2. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    Well of course it's not looking good when it's literally the only major review that exists right now
     
  3. Dr. Corndog

    Dr. Corndog

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    Polygon's Mania review was pretty ridiculous, and I find I can trust their opinion in general less than other sites'. So a 5/10 from them is...a good omen?

    Dark Sonic, I'm genuinely thrilled that you can be excited for this game. I can't do any more than shrug at it, and I can barely be bothered to do that.
     
  4. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

    I'll find the old avatar eventually Member
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    Working on my art!
    It looks like a lovely ironic laugh :v:
     
  5. Hukos

    Hukos

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    I mean sometimes you want that itch scratched, nothing else will do.

    I look at it like, if you have 1 good game in 4 tries, I can simply ignore the 3 failures and enjoy the one that was actually good and then have another game to go back to.
     
  6. I can understand this (because its basically what we've all had to do since 1998) but with each major dud, the Sonic franchise's reputation is further damaged and sales continue to decline. Because it has been and they have declined.

    That said, I don't want this series to die at any point. I want someone to be completely and utterly dedicated to making it, finally, truly great again in both 2D and 3D. If "dead" means 4 year hiatus to make sure the next game is a true winner, then so be it. But we sort of just went through that with Forces.....and it didn't work out. I think that a change in staff, decision makers, and design focus can make even half that time worthwhile and productive for the hypothetical next title.
     
  7. Hitlersaurus Christ

    Hitlersaurus Christ

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    I don't really know of any specific Japanese Sonic communities, but since Forces seemed to be made more for Japanese tastes than ours, I checked out 5ch to see how people there were reacting to the leaks. Turns out the reaction is pretty much the same as here but with more people wanting a return to SA2 or Unleashed. The general consensus seems to be that Forces looks like crap. A lot of them think Sonic Team is currently incompetent (a few mentioned they should let a foreign dev team make the next one a la Mania).
     
  8. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    Atomic Sonic Part II
    Where do you guys keep getting this impression that Forces is made with Japanese taste in mind?
     
  9. Beltway

    Beltway

    Temptive Bongwater, Sealed in Can Member
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    college courses / anime trash crusader
    While waiting for that potential good product in a string of poor products might work for some dedicated fans, it certainly may not be the case for other fans and especially not general reviewers/audiences. There's only so many failures a series can coast on through brand power alone until the series' market is restricted to only their diehard fans (a hole Sonic is in now for the most part). Worst case scenario? Things get so bad the series is killed off with zero chance of revival in the near future--not for the sake of quality control, but because the series is no longer considered valuable, regardless what the publishers/developers might propose to win back their customers.

    That is a likely outcome of a decision that is heavily left to chance or circumstance; which is something I personally would not consider the stakes behind them worth risking at all. Especially if it means that the series will be left in the hands of the same studio and/or IP managers who have a clear streak of ineptitude and carelessness on how to properly make use of the series. At least with a series put on the shelf, it gives the opportunity for a new manager or studio who knows what they are doing and give a damn to take a shot at it and bring it back successfully. We wouldn't have games like DKCR, Crash N-Sane, or heck, even Sonic Mania if things continued as normal; nor would games in that alternate reality where things continued as normal have sold and reviewed as well as they have.

    With that said, Konami's a notorious dumpster fire in the way it handles its classic IPs, developers, and their customers; so the mere idea of them deciding to stop callously fucking up is a tough sell. At least Castlevania fans have the spiritual successor Bloodstained to look forward to, if that helps.
     
  10. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

    DON'T TRUST THIS MAN Member
    True that, but is that not just a matter of console numbers more than any kind of brand dedication? I'm pretty sure Sonic seems to just sell best on whatever the more popular console is at the time, whether that's Nintendo or not: for example, Sonic Heroes sold more on PS2 over Gamecube, and Mega Collection shifted almost an extra million copies on PS2 over Gamecube.
    Since last gen we had Wii/DS (and the start of 3DS) dominating the sales, so it makes sense that Unleashed Wii and Colours would sell better than the lesser owned console outings.

    With this line of thinking though, I'm putting money down that we'll see more PS4 sales of Forces over Switch based on sheer numbers, and Polygon just picked the easiest target to mark down.

    Of course, I could be completely misreading the modern Sonic market, but I'm standing by it for now. If I'm wrong I'll stand out in public dressed as Tingle from Zelda. :colbert:
     
  11. corneliab

    corneliab

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    This is one of the only 3D Sonic Team games that I've had no hype for at all.

    The Adventures: hotly anticipated, loved both at the time.
    Heroes: beside myself with hype, thought the game was underwhelming, soon grew to hate it.
    Shadow the Hedgehog: was immediately turned off by the reveal. still confused that this was ever a thing.
    06: thought the game would be amazing, bought day one, was embarrassingly in denial for a fair bit on just how much of a mess it is.
    Unleashed: was really, really, excited. loved it overall.
    Colors: was definitely looking forward to it and ended up having a great time.
    Generations: was super-hyped for this one and loved it.

    The only period of time that I've had any real interest in Forces was when it was first revealed along with Mania. Even then I was a little confused that classic Sonic was brought back (and underwhelmed that all they had to show was a CG trailer). Still, I was down for a Generations 2 of sorts.

    It sure has been a downward spiral from there, though. Like, holy shit. There's that old Sonic cycle meme that's been beaten to death, but the thing about it that resonated with people was the tendency for these games to drum up interest only to then dispel it with further details. Forces however has been notable for seeming like shabby anti-hype for nearly this entire time. If you've been thoroughly following it, I imagine it's been difficult to muster up any kind of truly earnest interest or hope. Even the people in this thread that still plan on playing it just seem sort of resigned to the game's shabbiness.

    I'm really interested as to what extent reviewers are going to lay into this game. That Polygon review is in line with what I'm expecting overall, but who's to say just yet.
     
  12. Hitlersaurus Christ

    Hitlersaurus Christ

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    Well, I don't think it was just made for Japanese fans but they're definitely being kept in mind. The Japanese fan base has been clamoring for another story-based game for years and the marketing seems to be heavier over here. The Hooters deal, the cafe at Sweets Paradise, etc. I think the avatar creator is more of a western fan geared thing but the overall tone, story/characters and marketing fit the Japanese fanbase's sensibilities. At least some of the Japanese fans in the thread I read seemed to think so too. To roughly paraphrase one poster, "Sonic is best when it's an equal mix of Japanese-ness and Western-ness, but this game has too much of the former."

    As an aside someone drive-by shitposted "クソニックザーウンコホグ" (Shitnic the Poophog) which is a pretty cool name
     
  13. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

    DON'T TRUST THIS MAN Member
    I've been stumped for inspiration for a while, but now I will be looking forward to creating my Brown Hedgehog OC, Kusonic.
     
  14. I think Sonic Mania really killed off any potential hype for Forces. If it was the only game announced then it would have got more attention, but was impossible due to Mania being what allot of people have been waiting decades for.

    I don't like to see anybody's hard work fail but this can only be a good thing for Mania 2. Hopefully a bigger budget, and no more re-used levels.
     
  15. It didn't feel stupid or fun for me. It was more like secondhand embarrasment. The cutscenes just flat out scream 'WE HAD NO TIME TO MAKE THESE, SORRY!!'
     
  16. Laura

    Laura

    Brightened Eyes Member
    I thought Polygon's review was really good, representative of what many fans have been saying about Forces and the general problem of the Boost gameplay.

    Honestly, I hope the other big reviews are similar, because I want this game to fail badly, both critically and commercially.

    And I'll urge everyone here, please don't buy this game new. If you really must get it, buy it pre-owned. That way you win on both counts, you can play the game ironically at a cheaper price while not giving SEGA money and supporting this terrible direction for Sonic. If you buy the game new, even 'ironically', you are exactly the same practically as someone who just wants Sonic to be trash-tier like Forces.

    Mania's set a new bar, and Team Mania's position will be far better going forward if Sonic Team's awful game tanks. It'll show the execs that Team Mania are the talent required, not simply nostalgic classic themed games.
     
  17. Dissident

    Dissident

    AKA Discoid Member
    I was watching the cutscenes on my phone the other day and felt genuinely embarrassed by the time I hit the "I can smell your fear, it's delicious" scene. It's too much.
     
  18. Hitlersaurus Christ

    Hitlersaurus Christ

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    II agree with the general sentiment on the story but I unironically liked that scene.
     
  19. Has anyone actually asked Team Mania if they'd be interested in being the lead developers for Sonic in the future? Rhetorical question.

    Even though I have stopped supporting Sonic Team proper with Forces and I'm basically just waiting for someone to steal their jobs...why would Taxman/Stealth be confident about taking the reigns here? They have to be incredibly aware of how difficult it is to deal with listening to the now three different generations of Sonic fans and the different ideas of what it means to be a Sonic game. And the expectations, the pressure. I'd love for them to be given a shot as much as anyone else...but would they actually want to? Perhaps they've got their own dreams about non-Sonic games. And let's not forget the internal political fallout that would even lead to something like this. They were given a chance by the current Sonic Team, when they didn't have to be given one; how can they feel comfortable in a role like that?


    .
    ....Of course if they were interested, I'd be the first to campaign for them. And I'm sure my voice doesn't matter. I don't know their history with 3D titles but they've got about the same amount of experience working on Sonic games that Naka had in 1996 before Sonic Adventure, plus a 20 year head start on technological advancement and knowledge of 3D gaming, and the same amount of lessons of what to do and what not to do with Sonic in terms of gameplay and story elements. I'd say if anyone is qualified to lead the brand going forward, it'd be them.

    Its unfathomable to me that a developer could be allowed to work on a franchise such as this one and not have a basic understanding about why people actually like Sonic games to begin with (referencing Nakamura's recent interview) and fundamentally how they work. Team Mania would be the first group since Naka left to actually have that understanding.
     
  20. Laughingcow

    Laughingcow

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    Well, you're half right about that. Team Mania does know what makes a great Sonic game. A Classic Sonic game that is but I don't know if they could (or even want to) tackle Sonic in a 3d space.

    That said, Dimps has shown to understand how to make a great Sonic game. A pure 2.5D Boost Sonic game (without that run behind shit from the storybook series) that is but their attempt at doing a something in a 3d sphere with Sonic Lost World garnered an equally mixed review with the console version.

    To me, the question becomes who actually wants to make a great 3d Sonic game. Even Sonic Adventure back in the day WASN'T so much an attempt at 3d Sonic as it was Iizuka wanting to make a Sonic RPG (hence all the extra story & characters). Closes thing we've gotten to an actual 3d Sonic game was Sonic Adventure 3 but that was handicapped by padding (too many teams), recycled boss fights, and too many bottomless pits/level design issues.

    Posing the question to myself, I wouldn't want to make a 3d Sonic game. I wouldn't mind making a new 3d Shadow game though.