Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Blue Blood, Jul 23, 2016.
So what is the hedgehog avi's bonus ability now?
I was wondering about that since this channel uploaded every level and boss (with his character being a male hedgehog) and he was having his rings drop as Modern and Classic Sonics too. I can only imagine what the thought process was behind the developer's minds when they've stubbornly had no sign of changing the rings disappearing thing only to fix it a couple days after it leaked.
And that is what's wrong. A really important stuff in Adventure is that he gets the self confidence he needs to NOT depend on Sonic for being proactive. He realizes that and goes to fight Eggman alone (that means, without Sonic).
And what does he do here in the same situation? He literally gives away his ass. That's just... no.
Not that I actually give a shit about this game, but this and one other thing bothers me quite a bit about the story. Where the fuck did all the humans go (aside from the obvious Eggman)? I get them being a no-show in most games (hell, I prefer it), but Unleashed went out of its way to show off Sonic's world (hell, it's even called SONIC WORLD ADVENTURE in Japan). Forces' whole plot revolves around a world war happening in the same world as Unleashed and there are no humans around anywhere? Just... what? Again, I would normally be just fine with the game just being cartoon animals plus Eggman, but given the circumstances provided by the plot, this just irks me.
Some characters just exist, don't exist, or act out of character for either no or very shallow reasons in this game.
I get that this is just a game about a blue cartoon hedgehog, but if they're gonna try stories like this they need to stop half-assing them.
I've seen people spreading this "Sonic X was right, there are two worlds with animals in one and humans in the other" meme due to Forces suddenly making all humans besides Eggman go poof.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was really because they took the shortcut of using copypasted OCs to fill backgrounds.
Don't get me wrong, I realized this as well, but him only being proactive when a Sonic is around is better than him not doing anything worthwhile at all.
Like I said, Tails seemed more fitting for the role of resistance leader precisely because of how he took charge in previous games, especially Adventure 2, where he was the one coming up with all of the plans and standing up against the odds without Sonic. Hell, in Battle, Tails is willing to fight Shadow of all people to protect Emerl. He flat out told Shadow "I respect you, but... Emerl's our friend! If you attack one of us, then I'll do whatever it takes to protect him!"
It's funny because Nakamura also partially wrote Sonic '06, and there, Tails just sorta.. exists? He helps figure out what's going on in the future and serves up a little exposition, but doesn't really do much besides obligatory amigo sections and a retread of Wave Ocean that is pure filler.
Then again just about everyone that wasn't Sonic, Shadow, Silver, Omega or Blaze (and maybe Rouge) were kind of useless in '06's plot. And Silver just made everything worse anyway. So Forces making everyone but Sonic and the obligatory self-insert avatars nigh-useless isn't really surprising combined with Modern Sonic standards dumping all the responsibility onto his shoulders.
Regardless of how someone feels about stories in Sonic games, there needs to be consistent attention to the continuity. Otherwise, it looks as if Sonic Team just doesn't care enough nor respect the franchise they're handling.
Sonic Forces acknowledges that this game is a follow-up to Generations (Modern Sonic's & Tails greeting to Classic) and Lost World (Zavoc in the game). People are not going to forget how Generations tied all the mainstream games together. No one is going to forget how much humans were involved to Shadow's origins and the plot of SA2. Even with the newly established alternate split timeline thing (Zelda all over again) they're going for with Classic Sonic, it's still acknowledged as connecting to other mainstream games with an established continuity. As well, there has been nothing to suggest within the games that there is multiple planets for the characters to be planet-hopping from game to game. Eggman's family, Shadow's origins, and Knuckles' ancestry has been tied to "EARTH". There is NO second world, there is NO Mobius, or "Sonic's World", or equivalent to that matter in the games. This theory has never made sense and never will. The games take place on one planet (Not counting the Mania-verse timeline split), "Earth." And, that's that.
It's perfectly understandable why inconsistencies or plot-holes may irk some fans, because there's already established lore or elements from the franchise. So when someone asks "Where are all the humans?" or "Where was all that character progression for Tails from Sonic Adventure and SA2?", I can understand why they would be frustrated by this.
Quiz: In computer graphics, what's the difference between 100 centimeters, 100 meters, and 100 kilometers? If you're a texture artist: Texture resolution, maybe. If you're a 3D modeller: Nothing, they're all 100 units and have a 1:1 aspect ratio. It's a non-issue when polygons are infinitely scalable and all units are interchangeable in the editor.
Beyond that, coming to terms with scale is the very first hurdle for any amateur level designer, and it's an easy problem to solve with some basic math once you record the parameters of the player's movement. Assuming the player has a consistent max speed, it follows that they'll have a consistent max jump distance and will traverse a constant distance relative to time. Player velocity, world coordinates and time should all be visible in any basic debug overlay. Once you have those numbers down, you can spitball the player's standing jump distance, running jump distance, and time of traversal. Then you just build your world chunks around those units so you can be sure with relative certainty that a jump will be possible without even having to playtest it. I'm not saying Forces' level designers aren't amateurs, but I'm 100% certain scale isn't an issue for anyone with a job in that field.
Forces got me thinking about Knuckles' character for a bit, and it occurred to me that with the exception of characters explicitly meant for fighting games, brawler types really get short shrift in games, especially if they share screentime with a skilled, elegant, so kawaii sword-fighter type. If you fight with your fists, you're dumb, brutish and stubborn, simple as. Knuckles' initial characterization in S3K is really unique in the way that it subverts that, giving this brawler top billing as the protag's rival and a credible threat, but it was a flash in the pan event because it was strictly tied to the setting: Knuckles is a force that can keep one step ahead of the fastest thing alive because the Floating Island is his domain and he knows all of its secrets. He worked as a rival because not only was his personality antithetical to Sonic, but his status as a guardian rebranded his brawler stubbornness as a dutiful tenacity that we can respect. But the franchise couldn't stay on that island forever- in truth, off the island without anything to defend, it only made sense that he be made irrelevant comic relief.
It's fascinating because I think this characterization is one of the few things Iizuka gave any substantial thought: Knuckles as leader of the resistance works because the Floating Island is only a subset of this world, and if Eggman rules the world, there's no way his island could ever be safe. Leading the resistance is still fulfilling his role and his drive as a guardian. Given his tenure and his former status as a rival to the most powerful character in this world (and not a lackey; Tails), not only is he the best fit for the job, but I'm sure he wouldn't have it any other way with his ego. It's a total redemption of his character and the only positive impact this game could have on the franchise. It just feels jarring because it's made him the victim of reverse flanderization, as rare as that is; we're so used to him being the butt of the joke that any return to authority is whiplash-inducing.
Especially with the game proceeding after Lost World, where Knuckles got all of three lines and two of them were him being an arrogant jackass bragging that he'd of done things faster than Sonic before being shoved aside like the then-pointless character at the time he was.
What a damn mess of a game and a plot. Mania Sonic just runs in, which makes that fan animation far superior, Silver is there (how?), Eggman creates his own version of Shadow using his phantom Rudy instead of alien DNA then says HE is the ultimate life form when Infinite sucks and fails. Remember the good old days when Sonic 06 was the “bad” game?
check again guys he doesn't say ultimate life form just "ultimate form", ala he made his dumb nega wisp machine even stronger and gave it a lyric outer shell.
I did some digging and found a pretty good explanation for the dumpster fire that is Forces' story. From the credits:
What kind of experience does this person have with the franchise? Why, as a Level Designer for Adventure 2, Heroes, and Shadow the Hedgehog!
What a sensible choice.
They should've just had him as a designer instead instead of the new guys.
What's bizarre is that there's a different person credited for writing and story later on in the credits, before Pontiac and Graf are listed as the English writers. I posted it a bit earlier in the thread but their name is Makoto Goya. Google turns up that name for a number of games including a writer on Shenmue, but I don't think all of the credits are for the same person. I'm assuming it's the same one credited for Rythm Thief's story since that's also a Nakamura game but I don't know for sure what other writing credits are his.
This Makoto Goya and this/these one(s) might be the same but I doubt it
I'm looking forward to the reviews the most so it proves to Iizuka that it's not the negative fans, rather Sonic Team and his inability to create and direct a good 3d game.
They could expand upon Sonic Colours, that was a step in the right direction. And please no more milking the same classic level please.
If they only listened to the veterans, not the kiddies.
Never underestimate the power of human ignorance.
Ignorance is infinity at Sonic Team Enterprises :specialed:
On the other hand, there were shitty reviews about Colors and other better games made too, so I'm not sure why you believe that Sonic Team will listen to them.
The Adventure games are now over 18 years old. The kiddies are now old enough to consider themselves veterans too.
While I agree with all this it's not a "theory," it's Sonic Team's current official story for the Sonic franchise. It makes no sense but it's in the series bible. I know there's at least 1 person here who's seen it and can confirm. The only reference to it in the games so far is in Colors where Eggman talks about taking over "Sonic's World", which is the only name the planet officially has.
Just keep it as Earth in your head and don't think about Sonic Forces, it's much easier
Okay, so a update is out apparently.
FUCK YEAH MY BOI SUPER SONIC IS PLAYABLE
I know the overall tone right now isn't sunshine and rainbows but you have no idea how happy I am right now
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