Sonic Forces Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Blue Blood, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. Twilightzoney

    Twilightzoney

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    I already know they do that in 3d and use chunks and spline deform it to fit a path and then make collision that acts for the physics (we've seen leftovers of it in levels and use of repeated geometry). I've done this stuff before don't need you telling me how it all works. I don't need to see you make anything I'm good just saying 3d does have more complexity to it and you showing something in 2d is like whatever to me.
     
  2. Amnimator

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    BSPs would have made a world of difference. Something along the lines of UE4 where you can rapidly prototype collision in the level editor, export it in the same exact scale into Blender/Maya/etc., and model over it once you have something that plays well. I kind of get the feeling that their workflow isn't much better than the community made level editor, and the Unleashed dev build.

    I wouldn't doubt you can, in fact, it's neato the guy abandoned PhysX for the player physics.

    I think it's more of a pain in terms of level design to get scale right when doing level design for boost Sonic in specific. He runs at roughly 750mph, stages are miles long, and with how large a location you're dealing with it's really tough to visualize what he can or can't traverse through. The stage is so enormous when you look at it from a distance you can't intuitively say with precision whether Sonic can make a jump or not, if this turn is too large, too small, too tall, etc even when you look up close. Only real solution are tools that let you fail faster and prototype more rapidly, and get a better feel of the whole thing. You'd be tackling a different design problem than had you went with a 2D problem.
     
  3. Mr Lange

    Mr Lange

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    I'm talking strictly 2d (or rather 2.5d), haven't even gotten into 3d yet.
    Or, that is to say, I haven't talked about it here, but I have gotten into it. More on that later.
     
  4. SuperSnoopy

    SuperSnoopy

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    I agree with everyone here that Sonic Team need to start fresh for the next 3D game. I still think the game looks good, but I'll guess we'll never agree on this. Whatever.

    The recycling of asset and returning stages need to go. The boost gameplay need to go. Classic Sonic (and 2d section in general) need to go.
    I may be bias on this one, but I think it could be interesting to go back to the Adventure formula. Semi open stages like in Adventure 1 and 06, and no boost and 2d sections.
     
  5. Amnimator

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    Low-key hype :V
    While I think boost gameplay has potential, I think using the Adventure formula as a base gives more freedom for the various designers. Really want to see another attempt on Adventure 1 style gameplay.

    EDIT: Looked over some of the staff mentioned in this thread. Turns out some of them still work at Sonic Team, just not involved in Forces. I'd say it's likely Sonic Team was working on 2 games in parallel this time around, like they often do.
     
  6. serpx

    serpx

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    Wow, Infinite is just as useless as Mephiles. Can we please go back to where care was put into a villian like Metal Sonic, Shadow and Chaos? I could careless if Infinite never returns.
     
  7. Vangar

    Vangar

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    I've been saving this picture of myself for a situation like this

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Jesus the rage in this thread. Calm the fuck down everyone, you're all acting as if Mania doesn't exist anymore. Don't like this? Play that.

    Also Infinite seems like a plot device villain similar to Mephilis. I highly doubt he'll make a return.
     


  9. I love this mentality. "Don't complain about bad things that we don't like because I like it". I think the game is trash, and I will continue to call this utter disgrace of a game trash. 4 years of dev time, and this is the sloppy mess they shove out to the masses. Yes, Mania is still a thing but this game was supposed to be their main set piece. Mania, as hyped up as that game was, was a *side* game. This was always their main focus. The big 25th anniversary game, and it's a convoluted mess of shitty dialogue and shitty level design with piss all inspiration. Don't tell me to not share my opinions on this garbage just because you like it.
     
  10. Laura

    Laura

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    He's not saying that though, he's saying that we shouldn't get too emotionally upset because we have Mania.

    And I adore Mania (I'm actually warming to it more and more as time goes by) but I'm also anxious because Team Mania's future isn't certain and Sonic Team are getting worse rather than better.
     
  11. Mania is fantastic and I will continue to play it, but I have been looking forward to another Modern Sonic game that I can play on my console since Generations and to see it turn out like this after six years of waiting is quite gutting. The gap between Unleashed and Generations was bad enough (screw you Colours exclusivity!), but at least when it was over I got to play a fun Sonic game that I go back to regularly. I hate to use the cliche, but I am not angry with Forces, just disappointed.

    I am still going to pick this up next Tuesday. I put my pre-order in for this just after we first saw gameplay, rather naively in the hope that Sunset Heights was the tutorial/first level and things would only get better. From the snippets I watched on the stream it simply looks playable - not fun, not atrocious, just playable. I want to try it for myself and collect the achievements but then I will most likely be trading it back in, unless it ends up growing on me.
     
  12. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    That's fair and kind of where I'm coming from too. I think I can get some fun out of it, but I'd be lying if I said it's what I wanted. Now I would be more mad if Mania wasn't a thing, but it is, so we here got what we wanted for the most part. This is just a disappointment.

    But my thought process is that we just had two games come out. One was critically acclaimed, sold well, and was created by a smaller team on a smaller budget. This game looks like it'll be received poorly and sounds like another example of development hell, coming right off the heels of another game that suffered from development hell (Sonic Boom RoL, granted not a Sonic Team game but still). It'll likely bleed money even if shortcuts were made. And if what Hogfather said was right, that SoE and SoA saw the pitch and rolled their eyes at it, they already were disappointed with this from the get go. Meanwhile I bet they're really happy with Mania. So going forward what path makes more sense? Plus a team of Indie developers excelling beyond Sonic Team proper is not going to look good on Sonic Team, and I bet SoJ will be none too pleased as a result.

    Still can't believe this game was leaked almost 2 weeks early. I wonder if there will be some sort of day 1 patch that hasn't come out yet simply because they got the game way too early.
     
  13. Ok but buying the game on release date is really bad for the franchise. Waiting a month to pick the game is the minimum someone could do to make sega understand this is not okay.

    Sonic 4 EP2 played better than this.
     
  14. Sean Evans

    Sean Evans

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    But I'd rather everything with the series name attached to it be of that similar quality. Just because one pair of shoes from my favorite brand are great, doesn't mean I'll just be okay with the shittier, more expensive pair of shoes. I expect consistency in the quality of what is produced, especially with something as high profile (or at least something that used to be as high profile) as Sonic. Mania clearly wasn't what Sega had their sights set on for the blockbuster of the year, Forces was. Mania wasn't the game that had a big budget and lengthy development window, Forces was. Mania wasn't the title handled by the dedicated team responsible for making any and all future titles in this series until further notice, Forces was. I wanna be excited about Sonic's future after such an amazing success like Mania, but I can't, because there's nothing concrete to suggest quality like that will continue. Remember, they approached Iizuka about Mania, not the other way around. They had to develop a strong relationship with the company before they could even do a project of this magnitude, and they were still given certain restrictions and limitations to work under. This felt less like Sonic Team wanting to give back to the fans, and more like an excuse to justify Classic Sonic in Forces. So unless Sonic Team is collectively canned (which probably won't happen), or they have some new project that shoehorns classic Sonic in, then I don't really feel confident in a continuation of Mania.
     
  15. Sparks

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    Personally I enjoy watching and marveling at game development train wrecks like this. :v: It's almost.. fun to dissect a game about what went wrong, what could've went right, how things went wrong, etc.
     
  16. This is pretty hilarious and sadly true. Though I'm a beaten househusband whose wife tells him to grow the f**k up and stop paying so much attention to Sonic related things.

    (She does understand my addiction and thinks its funny).


    Thanks to the inconsistency of modern gaming journalism, I have no idea how this game will do. (My bet is still 60-70%) But you're correct that if they are actually awake while playing this game, it will bomb critically. Its mediocre at best for traditional Sonic standards and if they're not Sonic fans they probably won't find the 35 million extra characters constantly blabbing on the radio too endearing.

    I really hope SEGA didn't make the mistake of planning the movie around this game. Ugh, it hurts just thinking about how likely that is.

    Man. Popcorn for the 7th.
     
  17. LordOfSquad

    LordOfSquad

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    True Story: I was relaying the tragedy of Forces to my co-worker just now. Apparently he was watching some game trailers on Youtube this weekend, and his six year old daughter popped in on him while one of the Forces trailers was playing. This exchange followed:

    "Hey that's the Sonic game we have [Generations]!"
    "Uhh no, pretty sure this is the new one."
    "No dad it looks the same."

    fucking lmao

    look out Sonic Team, even your target audience is onto you
     
  18. :v: :v: so true. Even when I first saw an Emerald Hill screenshot as a kid I pretty much said the same thing.

    I'm not getting hyped for any more Sonic Team games. They are always going to be sub par.

    Unless it's a game by the Mania team or some other new group that actually knows what they're doing, it's not worth getting your hopes up only to experience the crushing disappointment that will inevitably follow.
     
  19. Blast Brothers

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    That assumes building a good engine is
    1. a serious goal for Sonic Team.
    2. Something that should be a serious goal for Sonic Team.
    Good/= profitable, and as I said, a good engine /= good. Why-from an objective standpoint- should Sonic Team care about attempting quality? If they did, then we wouldn't have Forces. They don't and they won't, until their plans fail. That's why the future of the franchise will be an interesting experience after the inevitable flop of Forces will be so interesting.
    You wanted to know why creating a good engine is so hard. It isn't. It's just not going to happen.
     
  20. Creature SH

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    I think that some of the problems we are seeing with Sega are a slightly magnified version of problems with modern corporate culture in general.

    That refrain of "we care about the fans" we hear every-damn-where from media entities? The one they wear as a badge of pride? That shouldn't be something they even have to say. No duh should you care whether your customers are happy with the product you want them to buy. That's the core of the entire transaction. The product needs to be desirable on its own merits, no matter what name is attached to it or whether a fanbase exists.

    But that's not the approach, is it? Instead, they are simultaneously acting like they're our good buddy doing us a solid by cooking up our favorite hedgehog dish when we show up hungry at their doorstep; and like a parent to whom we owe some debt of gratitude, and we better eat what they give us as long as we put our feet under their damn table.

    In either case, the conceit of their actions is that the purchase is a foregone conclusion. Like we owe them our money by virtue of their product existing, no matter whether it is something we actually want or not.

    We can observe that pretty easily in the media industry as a whole, with game companies and movie studios being furious at sites like Metacritic and Rotten Tomatoes for daring to put into question whether a purchase is actually worthwhile. We see it in the audacity of review embargoes and the occasional lawsuit against critics. We see it in the attitude that pretends that every used item re-sale and every pirated copy equals a loss of a full-price purchase. Because it couldn't possibly be the case that it's just not worth that much money to someone. We owe them the purchase. In their infinite generosity as our benevolent Dadfriend, they have made a thing, and now it is our responsibility to give them our money for it. Continuously. (Microtransaction ahoy!)

    There are industries were we can't even do much to fight that attitude. Need Photoshop for your job or hobby? You better shell out the cash every month. Just because they decided that paying once is not how they would like this to be anymore. You can't get some TV shows on physical media anymore, just in streaming form, to be paid perpetually. Even in games, we are seeing a move towards not-really-ownership, towards subscription models where they can ask for more money or change the terms or remove elements to re-sell them at a premium and take them away again any damn time they want.

    But for now, for this? For a bad game that isn't enjoyable? We don't owe them jack. Let's proceed accordingly.