Just tried to find you the original source but it was so long ago (around the time of Sonic Unleashed) that I'm not finding an active link to the rumour any more. It was a leak/rumour years ago that accurately predicted certain things about Sonic Unleashed (it was the first source of the Werehog being in the game) so many at the time thought it was genuine, accurate and had some truth behind it. From what I recall it was an anonymous blog post that alleged Sonic Team were burnt out on Sonic, lacking creativity and energy and that they were tired and overworked. I believe that blog post is the original source on the state of Sonic Team, the echo chamber about it in this thread and how it might now be affecting the quality of Sonic Forces and their future games. I can promise you it wasn't any obviously bullshit 4chan stuff or anything like that. It was a genuine leak that seemed honest and truthful that made accurate predictions. No-one believed it initially. It described the Werehog and everyone was like "Like hell is something like that going to be in a Sonic game". Then Sonic Unleashed was revealed complete with the Werehog thus affirming that the leak/rumour was somewhat accurate. It was so long ago I'm having trouble finding a link for you. Anyone remember the blog post to which I'm referring? I believe it's the original source to all this "Sonic Team is burnt out" discussion. EDIT: Ah here we go. Found it. Here's the thread about it on NeoGAF with excerpts/links to articles about it: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=347871
I hear you but I'm specifically referring to your outlook on Forces and why you're confident that it will do less than middling. I'm just trying to get a sense of others well thought out opinions here pre-release; I happen to think that the result of this game coupled with the prior result of Mania will directly impact the future direction of the franchise (If it continues to exist). Edit: I think I may see where you're coming from. Just wanted to see your reasoning and evidence.
It's simple really. I just think Forces thus far looks god-awful, uninspired and lacking in colour, energy and sufficient effort and this will be reflected in its reviews and performance. It feels the definition of assembly-line and half hearted. Previews have torn the game to pieces (like that particular one from Sonic Stadium). My opinion and evidence is essentially three-fold: the game does not look good and much weaker than Generations, previews have thus far destroyed the game and finally the leak/rumour about the state of Sonic Team that seems to affirm they're tired of Sonic. For example: That's from an article by Blaze/Ryan Bloom circa 2009 or so. And here's the original archived blog post that I finally found: http://web.archive.org/web/20070408161400/http://bossrush.blogspot.com/2007/03/nights-2.html Hope that relays my opinions and thoughts a little more clearly. I just don't have faith in the game. I'd love for it to be awesome but it's looking like it's going to get trashed in reviews. Also you're completely on the money regarding Mania versus Forces/Sonic's future. Mania got glowing reviews and sold extremely well. Forces is likely to review poorly and under perform. It might be positive for Sonic in the long-run.
If that heresay about Sonic Team being a sweat shop is true, hopefully Forces will result in the kind of poor critical and financial response needed to force Sega to restructure the developer because clearly something is wrong. If it's simply the kind of creative bankruptcy that we're seeing and nothing more behind the scenes, that's a much worse problem. One that might require some serious shuffling of leadership.
Hopefully if they try to follow up Manias team for a sequel, they avoid this "sweatshop" issue. We already have seen that the Mania team was a bit rushed (missing level transitions being the most blatant sign), signaling slight concern that this sweatshop ordeal might apply to anyone given the task to make a Sonic game.
I wouldn't say sweatshop in the Mania team's case, just time and deadlines, just like any other game. It's still a great game though. This game looks lazy and forced at worst and meh at best so far. Looks like it could be fun to play drunk or high though :v:
I see. I recall reading that awhile back and, that would sort of paint a bleak picture for the future of Sonic (and explain a lot). One almost has to feel sorry for Iizuka and company (I often do) because it could not be more clear that this group has not been interested in properly executing the many Sonic related gameplay elements we discuss here and elsewhere for nearly 20 years. That is not to be disrespectful of all their efforts either; Sonic Unleashed, for example, was not a great game overall but one can hardly say they weren't trying. Same for Colors and Gens, which actually were solid overall. And I'm sure I've stated this before but I don't either feel that Forces is too attractive a product to my tastes. Certainly it looks bad to us diehards who have been waiting 4 years for the next big Sonic entry, especially given some of the early rumors we've heard during Forces development about a different type of 3D Sonic concept being on the table. But I don't like to assume that my opinion is the commonly held one. The Sonic fanbase is very divided on its perception of what Sonic is and what is enjoyable about the series, and the larger gaming community mostly stopped caring about the franchise long ago, with Mania being the first time we've seen otherwise in many years. So while we may think Forces is about to tank, there may be a host of others who think it'll be just fine or may be willing to try it out simply because they have not been measuring the pulse of Sonic-related issues. And with the wildly diverging opinions I've seen of this game, there does not seem to be a consensus other than: half the fandom loves it, the other half hates it, and the general community doesn't care. In general that absolutely is disappointing since SEGA has stated repeatedly they want Sonic to become a global brand again. They may however be testing the waters for the future; we seem to be at an important pivot point in which the direction of the future will be soon decided once the results are in, so I'm paying close attention to the post-launch reception of this game in all the important metrics. Anyway, I'm pretty sure that's what's going on because its what I'd be doing if I were CEO managing my most important IP.
I would say Mania and Forces reception and sales are going to affect the future of the franchise, but I wonder if the results are going to be apparent immediately. There was an article on Licensing Today Worldwide that mentioned the next 18 months were going to be important for the franchise. Which would end on December 2018. https://www.sonicstadium.org/2017/06/ltw-the-next-18-months-to-be-very-big-important-for-sonic/ I don't think it's a coincidence that it's around the holidays of next year. Is Forces really the game that has been in development for 4 years? Is there another game planned for next year? Or are they going to see the results of this year and retooled the franchise and focus on the movie during that time? (Of course, that is if we go with the date of publication of that article, chances are that interview happened earlier in the year.) It's been a while since there been so much uncertainty to what's going to happen to Sonic.
There is no way in hell Forces has been in development for 4 years. Maybe the Hedgehog Engine 2 was tweaked with during that time but the game itself? No there is no way in hell it's been in development for 4 years. I bet they were working on something else and then focus groups forced them to scrap it entirely to make this safe game instead.
It might look like it, but I can definitely see some parts that could've cost them 4 years. One, the OC system might've gone through a lot of changes and market research. This is going off Dimps commenting it was the hardest part in the development of Xenoverse. Two, the tweaking of the Hedgehog engine. And three, like it happened to Nights with the Wii, having to deal on how to put it on the Switch. That is not even counting Runners and the other projects Sega puts them to do or overseeing other stuff like Boom or Mania.
Actually that's true too. The OC system could very well have been initially designed for some failed pitch, so as mentioned earlier, like Silver in Sonic 06 and Shadow the Hedgehog before it, it was repurposed into this thing. Ugh I'm so conflicted with this game. I want to like it and hate it at the same time. It's like the Lost World version of Generations, and I didn't hate Lost World and I loved Generations, so this all sounds ok at least. But yea idk, I don't think I've been so torn on a Sonic game before. When Sonic 06 came out I was young and was still blinded by Sonic love. I bought it and it broke my spirit. Sonic Boom RoL came out and I immediately saw it as shit and didn't buy it. This though? I have no idea. This is all boiling down to Sonic R 2, Electric Boogaloo, which in my terms means a Sonic game that is pretty bad, but somewhat enjoyable when drunk. I guess that's worth a used or on sale purchase? Maybe? I have no idea. Be 3 weeks from now please so I can see some fucking playthroughs my god.
This is definitely a critical and potentially trajectory altering time for Sonic. Iizuka has stated Sonic Mania/Forces receptions will determine the future of the series. So far Sonic Mania got rave reviews, became a critical darling and from what we know has done exceptionally well in sales. Forces on the other hand looks set to be critically slammed and likely under perform. Thus a continuation of Sonic Mania seems extremely likely as is 3D Sonic games potentially being revamped once Forces bombs. This is all based on assumption of course. We don't yet have hard numbers on Sonic Mania and we don't actually know whether Forces will under perform. There seems to be a section of the fanbase that's enamoured with it so it might actually do well and then god forbid we could even end up with Forces 2. Best case scenario: Sega sees the reception for Mania, sees the reception for Forces and we immediately get Sonic Mania 2 in a year or two whilst 3D Sonic takes a break. Hoping this happens, personally. As for Forces, I feel like Dark Sonic. I'm conflicted. On the one hand it could be a fun few hours one night and on the other the game just doesn't look good enough. I'm sticking to my guns. Waiting on reviews and if it performs better than expected I may buy it. I'm super interested to see how it's received. Guess we'll find out soon.
I've wondered a bit about this myself. Will the movie feature a more classic or modern interpretation of sonic? That may indicate where they think they'll go next. Also if Forces does not do well, will the movie stay on course with a previously planned Modern/Forces universe? Or will it be something totally separate and new? Someone speculated (I think here?) that Forces ending may be a reboot of sonic and the movie could possibly tie into that. That's plausible to me. As far as Forces being in development for 4 years, I strongly doubt that only because we've had good evidence to suggest there was another project in the works as early as 2014. At minimum, Forces was not the only thing being seriously considered for the anniversary project. I personally suspect that the failure of Boom scared SEGA into taking a safe route but prior to that there was something else planned. Iizuka had all but stated before (I'm too lazy to link the interview) that the boost era was finished and they were moving forward with a different 3D Sonic. And I was excited for that. That changed after Boom flopped.
There's also that period either last year or 2015 where suddenly Sega was like "welcome the three eras of Sonic; Classic, Modern and Boom!" Can't remember what happened to all of that besides a single art book, but besides Vector's appearance in the cartoon getting some hub-bub, it does feel like there was something else planned. It also gives credence to the thin theory that the OC in Forces may have originally been Boom Sonic, since the grapple hook is similar to the ener-beam in use and concept, and the Avatar is basically a gimped Sonic with a combat-focused weapon (who is suspiciously leaner and taller than Sonic to a degree).
That's a good theory also. The OC is taller than Modern Sonic, but so is Boom Sonic. Maybe the OC was Boom Sonic at one point, but when Boom Rol and SC were failures they had to change focus. I bet this game will be more interesting years down the line once we know more about the story.
I just don't get Sega in regards to Sonic. Pre-Sonic2K6 there were 3-4 Sonics a year (at least) then after the car crash they slowed it down. That was a good thing. They seemed to be doing a mainline Sonic once every two years with some spin offs. Now we seem to barely get that. I'm just not quite getting it. Like. What happened to the Rush series? What happened to the Riders series? Why didn't they do a PS3/360 Sonic and friends at the Olympic games? Hell it looks like Sumo aren't doing any more Sonic/Sega Superstars things. I get that games are expensive but I thought they were kinda using Sonic to get the other Sega brands over a little bit. Find out who is everyone waxing nostalgic for. I know I am basically saying I would whore Sonic out more but a good chunk of the games I said were at least solid. Then coming to Forces, I really get the impression that they wanted to do a slightly darker storylined Sonic game with a whole load of characters coming back in the story. But someone higher up said "well you gottta have Classic Sonic" and then "This Sonic Boom seems to be half popular... no scratch that Create a character". Meanwhile someone else kinda wanted to do Sonic Generations 2 with Sonic Generations and Lost World assets. And now it just looks a mess especially after Sonic Mania. A boring mess. And to stress what I said before I don't want Modern Sonic to be locked away. But this is looking a step backwards in every way from Sonic Unleashed. They fucked up Green Hill. How? TL;DR - Where the fuck is Sega AM2 and where is my Virtua Fighter 6?
New Sonic Forces comic featuring Silver & Knuckles https://twitter.com/sonic_hedgehog/status/921045142466736128 ...and that the Phantom Ruby does seem to control time and space.
I can't believe they're gonna be riding coattails on Mania. Fuck this game / plot. EDIT: I should elaborate. The fact that this is now a direct sequel to Sonic Mania puts the likely-hood of an actual sequel to Mania (on that awesome engine) less likely.
It was really obvious this was a sequel to Mania, but how would it make a Mania sequel less likely? Mania made money, it got the best reviews in almost two decades, I wouldnt worry too much about it's future
Yeah, I'm not seeing how Forces hinders the possibility of a Mania sequel. Plus, I'm sure the plot of Forces and the Phantom Ruby was already established before Mania came into being.
