Sonic Forces Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Blue Blood, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. Zelkia

    Zelkia

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    We've recently received information on Sega's optimization process for Sonic Forces. And it's a shit-show of epical proportions. 720p, 30fps. Like... I'm not here to discuss my opinion on this but i need meat to this post. So, let me level with you.

    Look at the Rail grinding section in Sunset Heights on the PS4, then on Switch. It becomes clear the textures were nerfed to hell.
    The lighting was also downgraded.
    The game doesn't even run at 900p, unlike Mario Odyssey.
    And yet, the game can't even hit 60fps.

    Now, don't take this the wrong way. I'm not at all bashing Nintendo or the Switch; The Switch is an excellent console that, IF YOU OPTIMIZE YOUR GAMES, can hit decent performance levels with minimal graphical downgrades. I'm bashing Sega, in this case. Not Nintendo, not Sonic Team, Sega.
    In 2016, the Switch was announced, and it's likely development kits were handed out no earlier than mid to late 2015. During most of this time, the game itself was being developed, and by being rushed for an unfamiliar platform and leaving the developers no time to understand the system and optimize the game and engine for it. Another classic example of Sega rushing a game to release on an unfamiliar platform giving little to no time for optimization. Want another example of that? Sonic Boom. And i mean Rise of Lyric. If this engine wasn't already designed to run on ALL consoles, then we would likely have all the problems Boom did- Horrible framerate dips (And i expect those coming anyway, just in much lower volume), unfixable bugs, among other problems. So consider your lucky stars that the Hedgehog engine was already designed for Nintendo platforms.

    I highly advise AGAINST buying the Switch edition, not only due to the downgrades but due to Sega constantly rushing these games out to consoles they don't understand and leaving no time for optimization, causing a ton of other problems. This will result in 3 outcomes(not the only ones, just the likeliest): Sega learning their lesson (Not bringing the games to consoles they didn't plan to develop for), or Sega learning their lesson(Leaving developers time to understand the system and optimize the releases) or Sega never learning their lesson and going under for delivering poor games every other release. Then Sonic goes to a company who can DO something with him. Hooray!
     
  2. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    So these bring up some interesting revelations and questions.

    *Infinite is a recurring boss, which makes sense I guess, and you defeat him either by befriending him, or your friendly bond with Sonic. He gets three fights...maybe. Eggman's gotta have more than one, but he only has one achievement here. Zavok has one too, but Metal, Chaos and Shadow don't. So...are they not bosses? Obviously they must be, but it's certainly weird looking.

    *EX stages and secret stages. I'm guessing EX is hard mode for the normal game (aka what normal mode probably should be, let's be honest), but the secret stages are probably like the extra levels and special zone in Lost World.

    *Number rings...like those things in Lost World I guess? Have their own achievement. I don't even know whether they're different, it just seems like a really random thing to include as an achievement.

    *Silver moon rings...I don't even know what to think about these. Currency? Sonic Unleashed medals? Do they do anything different from red star rings?

    *Some sort of "honor" system? I'm guessing it's like a rank that pertains to score, or completed missions, but that would weirdly overlap with other parts of the game's content if so. Maybe giving you fuckloads of rings actually is for points. It's really weird, either way. There's also apparently "races", which I guess aren't missions? Because missions have their own slots. So do those increase the ranking?

    *There's a total of over 500 (1000? 700?) avatar pieces.

    *I'm not sure what "rental avatars" are. It sounds like a Xenoblade X-Dragon's Dogma thing where you can browse and use other people's created characters, but that doesn't actually mean much when you're limited to one special locked to a character and everything else is interchangeable.

    *More than 30 wispons? What is that supposed to mean? Do they mean the wisp capsules in levels or did they really create 30 different unique weapons?

    *Daily, challenge, and "SOS" missions...which could mean anything.

    Well considering it's on the boxart, emblazoned right on the banner at the top of that page, I really don't know why there'd be any doubt.


    So...this has me curious about the amount of content in the game. Obviously a lot of it is just padding (kill TEN THOUSAND ENEMIES? FUCKING REALLY?) but the fact that some of this stuff might actually be important leaves me intrigued. It already has more content than I was expecting it to. I was worried this would be another Generations situation, where there's very few main levels and just a bunch of extra shit I never bothered with. But this speaks to some degree that all the extra levels will actually just be levels instead of "Amy how the fuck does your hammer work shut up before Sonic has to choke a bitch".
     
  3. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    Every Sonic game ever made since Sonic 1 has been rushed out to market

    Except Sonic Rush
     
  4. There is a Sonic Forces thread, literally within the top five threads of the General Sonic Discussion board.

    You desperately need to lurk more.
     
  5. SuperSnoopy

    SuperSnoopy

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    This achievement list is weird.

    There's no achievement for completing any level expect the first one, which isn't even named (inb4 green hill zone), there's not achievement for getting all the S ranks, or for unlocking super sonic...
    And more importantly, there's not achievements for beating Shadow, Metal Sonic or Chaos. That could mean they won't have a boss battle, but we already have screenshots of the Metal Sonic battle... and if Zavok have his own boss battle, it's safe to assume at least Shadow will.
    Maybe the hidden achievements aren't listed on this website (does the ps4 even have those ?)

    In any case, I agree with Shaddy here, I was kinda scared the game was going to stick to extra mission like Generations, but it seems like we're going to have more to chew on.
    Daily mission ? This could be fun.
    Rental avatar ? Fuck yes.
    Rankings ? Seems like Sonic Team is still salty about Sonic Runners discontinuation :v:
    EX stages and Secret stages ? I don't think we can guess what those are yet, we'll have to wait for the full game (or a trailer, hopefully)

    I'm also happy there seem to be a lot of clothing options for the custom character, I hope we'll get the soap shoes (Or at least something that look like them, since they don't have that partnership anymore)
     
  6. RikohZX

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    I do fear it's mostly going to be short levels and a quick main game, but with a metric ton of extra content. The big fear is if that extra content is mandatory to some degree to lengthen out the game, because Nakamura proclaimed that the game isn't short but others have alleged that it's like Generations in length. It's especially not helping that Sega is absolutely tight-lipped about zones at it is, and they've not even remotely touched missions or any extra content whatsoever despite them prominently and blatantly being there at the act select stuff.

    Also I believe the boss fights prompted in the trophies are likely "major" ones, with numerous sub-bosses peppered inbetween. Like how you had the rival battles in Generations and the actual boss fights for each era.
     
  7. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    Frankly, no Sonic game in recent years has had decent quality extra content. Unleashed is the best, but it's extra acts were still all trial and error mini levels. Colours and Generations just retooled versions of existing acts and those good awful Sonic simulator levels that ironically didn't even play much like the main levels. From the sound of Forces with its collectibles and daily missions, I'm expecting a large amount of naff content. I played through the extra stuff once in all these games and never went back. It's not fun.
     
  8. Glaber

    Glaber

    Has Beaten Sonic Genesis for GBA Oldbie
    Unfortunatly for me, it's either the unoptimised Switch version, or the denuvo laden pc version, and I rather take my chances with the switch version.
     
  9. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    I'm electing to buy no version of the game and will instead put my money towards a something that's actually worth it.

    On the subject at hand, it's a shame that Forces Switch is so poor performance wise. 720p and 30fps are absolutely fine, and none too different to Generations on console. The game has been developed natively for far superior hardware though. Some downgrades obviously have to be expected, particularly when it comes to lighting and effects. But if the textures look like smeared shit and the performance would make even Adabat in Unleashed PS3 blush, then we've got a problem. People are saying it feels bad to play.

    Sonic is definitely at home on Nintendo platforms, and with the Switch being a hit SEGA would be mistaken not to prioritise that. But I would rather not see the games be virtually objectively worse on Nintendo platforms.
     
  10. Part of me is like, is Sega allergic to DLC? Unleashed was the last time they really tried to put out DLC, and all of it was just new variations of existing maps. Maybe Sonic Team just immediately moves onto the next game and says "Previous one is done, fuck it."
     
  11. Dude

    Dude

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    Yeah, I think the entirety of the Forces thread already showed that Forces is the direct result of a culture that rushes everything out the door. It's down to a few factors:

    Target audience won't notice or care (little kids)
    Not enough budget to do things the right way (oh god who make this universe have resource scarcity what the fuuu-)
    Gamedev is really fricking hard (Humans are complex and making something that pleases them is equally complex)

    There's not much more to it than that. All the incentives are aligned the wrong way for a good game.
     
  12. Is it any wonder that 720p, lower textures, and 30fps IS the optimization? I don't think the Switch can take what the PS4 has to offer and translate it 1:1, it doesn't work that way.

    Comparing it to a different game like Mario Odyssey is silly, since that game was only made on one platform in mind. When porting one game to multiple platforms, you have to keep in mind different CPUs, GPUs, and a mess of assets coveted to run correctly or as efficiently on each console.

    ETA: Also, I don't think we can use the excuse that a game's being rushed in development since... what game isn't?
     
  13. Andrew75

    Andrew75

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    Wonder if it will have Xbox one X enhancement lol
     
  14. SuperSnoopy

    SuperSnoopy

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    Seems like it
     
  15. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Probably because they put so much work into the Unleashed DLC but got nothing from it. Which is a shame, as Generations would have been the perfect game for DLC (a level from Sonic 3, Shadow, and Secret Rings would have been lovely).
     
  16. Dario FF

    Dario FF

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    It's also worth mentioning a big chunk of Unleashed's DLC was just cut content that they couldn't finish in time and they decided to finish it later. It's speculation, but it's a pretty safe conclusion to draw from the structure and the naming of the acts in the game's files.
     
  17. Beltway

    Beltway

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    That would be a fair argument if the Switch version only had been had some small hiccups that could easily be smoothed out. But these aren't some small glitches or minor aberrations taking place; the controls, framerate, and textures have been described as subpar by multiple sources, and that's DESPITE the optimization they've done. We have two previews on record for declaring it the worst-performing Switch game on the show floor. That doesn't really tell me they were really meticulous about the Switch porting process; if the Switch version as we've seen it was the state they felt was acceptable to allow playable to the public.

    Nah man, this is the same publisher who rushed out Sonic 2006 and then did the exact same thing with Boom: RoL a mere three years ago, they don't really get a lot of benefit of the doubt here. They literally just apologized for prioritizing shipping dates over quality assurance, and made a point of delaying both Boom: F&I (and later Mania) past their initial releases for additional polish. Come off the damage control.
     
  18. I'm no Sega PR guy, so no damage control or postulation on my end, I'm just stating what the reasoning behind all this is.

    I don't think a Switch version would run a smooth 60fps unless it was built from the ground up-- which they won't do since like most porting projects are done within a time constraint. If one is to utilize the correct optimization for the console, they'd had to build it with the Switch in mind-- much like Mario Oddessy. If the porting was so simple, why hasn't it been done? Because it's not so simple?

    I dunno, I was only in indie development for artwork, I'm not a full-on AAA developer or anything, so everyone can take what I say with a grain of salt, but even indie had it's struggles in my experience.

    Can anyone back me up in the validity in all this or am I crazy not to jump in on the hate bandwagon and believe that everything is supposed to work on par with other consoles like magic? I feel like people think the Switch, PS4, and Xbox One are on par with one another, which they're not. Not hardware-wise, not software-wise, and heck, even the red tape is all different.

    Again, not siding, but what's going on behind closed doors and what's been said are two different things. Despite the subjective thoughts on what people've played, the Switch port's probably just gonna be a piece of crap, and it's all do the fact that it's both ported and the hardware it's on.
     
  19. Andrew75

    Andrew75

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    cool, also looking at that avatar fan edit character, would be nice if we could make him look like Nack the weasel.
    [​IMG]
     
  20. Beltway

    Beltway

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    You have my apologies.

    Apparently Sonic Team did, or were expecting it to. A recent interview said they were planning to bringing it to the Switch before they even knew what the console was; they've also said they started development on the Switch version after the other versions. Given what we've seen from the Switch version so far, I can't help but feel they made some errors doing so. The Switch version is a port that either should had been delayed/released much later, or probably been avoided altogether. The hardware baselines they set for Forces is clearly higher than what the Switch can accomplish.