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Sonic Forces Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Blue Blood, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. synchronizer

    synchronizer

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    Also known as "Crisis City."
     
  2. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    We're going to get Crisis City but instead of lava everywhere it's going to be snow and everything is going to look like New York in the Day after Tomorrow movie.
     
  3. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

    DON'T TRUST THIS MAN Member
    You know what, actually as someone who didn't hate Sonic 4 as much as most, I'd happily embrace an Episode III right now. The way Episode II was improving on I, it would probably end up more fun than Forces' 2D sections. I'm saying it right now.
    [​IMG]
     
  4. I actually wouldn't mind an S4E3, if only so that we finally get the last part of the plot.
     
  5. The best thing I can say about this game is that it doesn't feature a 3 foot tall black hedgehog shooting guns at aliens or a love triangle involving a Princess of Bumblefuck, Tennessee.


    I know it screams lazy, but what's the huge sin in reusing assets here and there? A 3D model of pipe from chemical plant in Forces isn't gonna look that much different from a 3D model of pipe in Generations. I can half-understand that decision because it would waste time and the assets would look very similar to the untrained eye. But for us, yeah, it's lazy and not a promising insight into to the care that the dev team put into the level geometry.


    Face it guys, Sonic Forces isn't for us. It's for children. The hodgepodge of characters, the basic level design. It's marketed for the juvenile demographic. Mania was for us. And if I'm right about that, it means we caught Sega in the act of spreading resources too thin and struggling to support it all. For god's sake- pick one target you can fucking hit, Sega.
     
  6. Chaos Rush

    Chaos Rush

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    It's not so much the reuse of assets that are offensive but the returning zones were all "coincidentally" also in Generations just screams that the game is rushed and they don't have the time or budget to actually create new zones.

    And honestly, Sonic Forces revisiting zones isn't necessarily a bad thing in and of itself, but revisiting fucking Green Hill, Chemical Plant, and (not fully confirmed) Sky Sanctuary? It's clear that the revisited levels they chose were not chosen to invoke nostalgia, but were chosen because they're reusing assets from Generations to save time/cost. That's what I meant by "this is Sonic Team's own Sonic fangame lmao", as plenty of fangames mix and match assets from official games and call it a new level (which I don't have a problem with when fangames do it), but when an official developer with a whole team of people and funding does it, it just seems lazy. Sonic Team is literally resorting to "Generations Green Hill Zone but with sand!" and "Generations Chemical Plant but during a cloudy day!".

    Sonic deserves better than this.

    leaked zone list guize
    1. Green Hill w/ sand
    2. Chemical Plant w/ clouds
    3. Sky Sanctuary & Knuckles
    4. Park Avenue
    5 Windy Hill w/ sand
    6. Rooftop Run w/ sand
    7. Arid Sands w/ water
    8. Casino Forest Ruins or whatever the fuck it's called
    9. Titanic Monarch but it's actually a reskin of Generations Planet Wisp
     
  7. Sean Evans

    Sean Evans

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    I don't get this mentality. Kids may not enjoy things the way we do, and they might not enjoy the stuff we do at all. But they aren't "simple". They aren't dumb. We were kids too ya know. You can just see the lack of effort put into a lot of this game and the excuse that, "it's for kids", doesn't cut it. Kids liked Mania too, Iizuka even said so himself. The idea that there isn't a commonground every fan can get behind seems untrue to me. This is Sonic Team trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Trying to tack together every little shallow thing they can to cover up the obvious lack of effort in a lot of places.

    They have some good ideas. Use a tyrannical take over as an excuse to revisit old levels with more interesting themes. Have an OC creator so people can imagine traveling through the world with Sonic and pals. Bring back classic gameplay to try and celebrate the series routes and introduce newcomers to what it was built upon. None of this is inherently bad. What's bad about it, is that Sonic Team has done the bear minimum of each of those things without really getting into the meat and potatoes of how to make it great. The reimagined levels are lazily done, the OC is extremely basic with limited customization, and classic Sonic levels feel slapped on and lack the mechanics or subtlety of the original games. The idea that it's for kids doesn't really justify that stuff (maybe the simplicity of the OC creator, but certainly not everything else).
     
  8. 360

    360

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    This. A hundred percent this. Anecdotal I know but my 15 year-old nephew is super hyped for Forces (and didn't care about Mania) whilst my younger 8 year-old nephew has a Sonic backpack for school and I regularly see him in Sonic T-shirts. The point is, there is a massive children/teenager market for Sonic and all Sega is doing is just going full speed ahead in trying to appease that demographic.

    This game is almost assuredly for them. And to be honest it's probably going to sell quite well as a result regardless of its final quality. Sad but true.

    As of us, we get the divine Sonic Mania and whatever project Taxman and Stealth are working on next (Sonic Mania 2 please guys). Not the darkest timeline if it's one where Mania exists.
     
  9. RikohZX

    RikohZX

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    Even if it's for children, I'd still pull the Teen Titans Go fallacy in that you shouldn't give dumb shit to kids to make a quick buck.
    And considering returning zones and the return of stuff like the original form of Chaos, the darker storyline, and the blatant appeal towards fans and older generation players who would recognize some of these things, saying it's strictly for kids is in and of itself a complete farce.

    It's less spreading things thin between Mania and Forces to appeal to two demographics, and more they're trying to have their cake and eat too by trying to appeal to newcomers and old fans in Forces alike while hoping Mania would've helped ease that pain a bit.
     
  10. Creature SH

    Creature SH

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    Haphazardly throwing a bunch of stuff together at the last minute is always a bad thing, no matter who the target audience is.
    Sure, some kids may be excited for Forces now, but I am pretty sure that a lot of those same kids will ultimately feel let down by the finished product once they play it. The most essential difference between them and us when it comes to these games is that they don't have the experience to identify empty hype when they see it.
     
  11. I'd argue 2 things in rebuttal:

    (1) Obviously you and I understand it's not as simple as "kids are dumb, make level design over-simplistic," but does Sega realize that? You call it a fallacy and you're probably right, but we're criticizing Sega's understanding and implementation of it, not mine. I know better.


    (2) Yes, they're throwing in a lot of old staples like Green Hill, Chaos 0, and whatnot that us older fans grew up with and could appreciate, but what if their inclusion isn't so much about satisfying us, but not knowing how to throw in something original thats not hyper-realistic like 06? In other words, they're playing it safe because the last time they got too liberal with the creativity we got aliens, Soleanna, and a werehog.

    It's a bold claim, I know. And I'm having difficulty putting my thought process into words so bear with me.
     
  12. Atendega

    Atendega

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    What, are you saying I'm wrong about that statement being ridiculous?

    I'm not sure what my admittedly vapid, but harmless posts have to do with that, anyway, so it's kind of odd that you're calling me out for this. I certainly haven't been aggressively defending the game from the massive amount of legitimate issues that have been brought up, unlike certain other individuals here.

    Not the first time in my life I've been accused of being obnoxiously glass-half-full-ish and excitable though, so I guess going forward I'll hold my tongue :specialed:
     
  13. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

    DON'T TRUST THIS MAN Member
    You might be right, but I'd argue Super Mario Odyssey isn't exactly going for a different demographic either. Plus, it ain't children who will be giving out the review scores when all is said and done, and I think that's the part that's going to hurt Sega in the long run if this really is a quick attempt to make big buck-buck-bucks from delinquent pocket money.
     
  14. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    If SEGA stopped making their Sonic games for certain demographics and instead focused on making games that are actually good by their own merits, we wouldn't have games like Forces. Forces just cheaply throws in all manner of things that will hopefully appeal to different audiences, and it's failing.
     
  15. Sir_mihael

    Sir_mihael

    DON'T TRUST THIS MAN Member
    I think there could have been a world where Forces could be good on it's own: 3D and 2D Stages that took what worked and didn't work in Generations and improved upon it rather than just nicked Generations' levels again. 2D Sonic gameplay that looks at Mania and adds the benefits of next-gen hardware. Original stages that aren't reused. A storyline that doesn't feel like fanfiction.net but still involves Eggman being a dangerous threat. Playable Knuckles. I'm writing a wish-list at this point, but eh. I feel like the concept of Forces could certainly have been executed better with a team who aren't just interested in ticking boxes.
     
  16. It's children that will ask their parents to buy the game and rack up sales though
     
  17. Creature SH

    Creature SH

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    I don't think that screwing children over with a subpar product is okay.
    Besides, even children know to check review scores. It's 2017.
     
  18. big smile

    big smile

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    It's aimed at kids who eat at Hooters.
     
  19. I just wish this game was the £10~£15 one and not a £40~50 monolith. I would have gladly paid £30~40 for Mania. Heck, I paid £90 for the Collectors edition.

    But Forces? I'll be glad to acquire it by other means. But not before I've given my money to Cuphead and brought another copy of Mania. I feel bad for Webber having to essentially sell this to the fanbase that's literally in their post-orgasm glow of Mania and are now being told sloppy seconds is on the menu.
     
  20. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Ya if this is a game aimed at kids why are they cross promoting it at Hooters? Seriously, who thought of that idea?

    If this is their idea of trying to have a game target everyone they're doing it wrong.