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Sonic Forces Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Blue Blood, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. With how everyone seemed to love attacking everything i say whether positive or on the wire fence you really fooled the fuck outta me. :colbert:/>/>/>/>

    but i digest :v:/>/>/>/>

    Anyway got done with unleashed and i ask: How the fuck did ign get away with that abysmal showing of apotos?!yeah the werehog was a pacebreaker but it wasn't awful. he controlled nice and combos.

    colors brought the sonic cycle

    generations was an anniversary title, what can you do?

    lost world was forgettable due to drawn out stages and annoying parkour activation when moving towards a wall with any speed at all

    Joker the wolf i preordered upon seeing that and i don't regret it because whip of 1000 volts was fun (to me)
    *shut up i know its digress. its a joke you old fucks :)/>/> ​
  2. Mr. Cornholio

    Mr. Cornholio

    (Disclaimer: I typed this up pretty late last night and I was wicked tired. Going to just throw it up now just to get it off my chest.)

    Wow that Sonic Stadium article is hard to chew. I wasn't exactly thrilled with the game after the initial teaser trailer (Classic Sonic's return left me skeptical), but it really shocks me how it sounds like nothing really works here. The thrill of Classic Sonic being back has worn off and the flaws with Generations's implementation of him are much more evident, and the custom character sounds like a total mess. Nothing about the visual flair in this game really has any sort of spark or passion to it. It all feels very "by the numbers", and it's dishearting to see. Super bummed the first version they advertised (the Switch release) sounds like crap in terms of optimization.

    What bugs me the most about Forces is that I kind of like the idea of the plot. Eggman finally "wins" and has a good majority of the world under his grip, and Sonic basically plays a role in this huge resistance with his friends to stop Eggman's terrain. It's nothing groundbreaking by any means, but I enjoyed the Adventure games plot which kind of had a slightly darker tone with a fine layer of cheese. It seems like Forces is intentionally trying to throw us back to this Adventure game era style of story-telling, which is something I really don't mind. It's this kind of story telling that I think kind of separates the series apart from other comparable platformers.

    My issue is how it's handled. All of Sonic's friends are here - but they're entirely useless. Literally all we've seen from them is whining on the end of the radio device, or to just be there to explain the plot in cutscenes. We never get to see them actually do anything that helps the resistance in a significant way. Wouldn't it be interesting to see them experiment with adding Tails or Knuckles as potential playable characters? Why have this "resistance" plot if I'm just restricted to two flavors of Sonic again and a custom character I really won't have much attachment to if I'm not interested in the concept? I get that Tails and Knuckles' abilities wouldn't mesh with Sonic's vanilla play style too well, but I feel there's potential if it's tweaked properly. Maybe that's just me though. I want to see Sonic's friends be relevant again rather than sticking strictly to Sonic, and this literally seems like the perfect opportunity to do such a thing.

    Why also have this resistance plot if you're going to throw us through another nostalgia trip? It's frustrating how Forces has the right idea with it's level design tropes (take a level trope but add a huge mechanical uprising to the mix), but then decides to throw us through Green Hill again just because Generations did so well. Even with the idea of Green Hill being taken over, it's still not that interesting to see anymore. The large areas of sand from Eggman's resource extraction just makes Green Hill's return even more bland. Chemical Plant Zone's mention legitimately made me cringe and I'm seriously concerned we'll be seeing it again. The city level is a step in the right direction, but it almost seems a bit bland in it's art design? Maybe I'm being nitpicky though. The return of the Death Egg Robots destroying the city doesn't help things either.

    I just feel incredibly conflicted about this game as a whole. It's taking risks in certain areas that I really don't think are necessary, and playing it ridiculously safe in others. It's trying to do something different, but holds onto Sonic's past like a crutch. I still think the game is going to do decently well, but I'm not really sure I want to see another game like this.
  3. People have strong opinions and it's ok to not agree and discuss/challenge ideas. Don't take it personal.
  4. Hamzawesome


    I have to ask, has there ever been a time where the Sonic fanbase said that a Sonic game will be bad but it ended up being great instead?
  5. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

    Working on my art!
    Hmmm. How'd people feel about Colors prior to release? IIRC even Sega was kinda surprised Colors was as liked as it was (And they were surprised at how mediocre people thought Sonic 4 Ep 1 was :v:).
  6. After hunting on google for reviews can i ask: When did sonic leave? I don't get it
    Some of the games have better scores than mania. what the doodle nuggeting fu-
    I'm so confused
  7. MiSHiKiS


    If you're looking at a individual review, then you might be comparing scores wrong. If we're talking metacritic, which combines multiple review scores and averages things out, than just like the Sonic Twitter itself mentioned, it hasn't gotten such a highly rated game in about 15 years. And in that time span, we're talking, maybe three universally well received games (Colors, Gens, and Rush) out of a myriad of 70s and 60s. So, its worth rechecking if need be.

    If we want to get hypothetical about "when Sonic left", I'd argue he "left" when he lost most of his credibility by around Heroes, and lost all of it with Shadow, which is why even seeing the reaction of "Mania is a good Sonic game" is something people act surprised about because he's just gained back credibility which is where you hear the whole "Sonic is back!" to the general public. And the signs are there, this game's out in less than 6 weeks, and with we've seen with hands on impressions, this game wont make him lose the credibility he just gained, but will be labeled as another 70 averaging meh Sonic game. And it wont be because of the gimmicks it included like Unleashed, but because it actually looks not at all fun to play.
  8. Laughingcow


    Resident Edgelord PHD Member
    Nope. Granted the "expecting bad" didn't start until Sonic Unleashed.

    To answer when did Sonic leave, that would be Sonic Adventure 2. It wasn't as good as the first game this began the downward spiral.
  9. Reviews for 3D Sonic games have been OK (Generations seems to be the exception) for the last few (decades) years, this is obviously a major factor why Sonic has fallen from the mainstream/casual consciousness.

    The mainstream audience that Sonic needs to win over only notice games that get above average scores (because they are not in deep with videogame journalism etc), and that's where Sonic needs to be - getting high scores and working it's way back into the mainstream. I'm pretty certain that won't happen with current gen 3D Sonic until there is some common sense and a major shake up at Sonic Team/Sega.

    You have to remember that we are in deep with this franchise, and from the outside allot of people (people I know) couldn't care about Sonic anymore due to poor games or have forgotten altogether, where as they still are in touch with the Mario franchise because it consistently pumps out good games.

    Either wipe the slate clean with 3D Sonic and start over from the ground up, or continue on the tried and tested 2D formula.

    I know which I'd choose for now.
  10. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    Classic Eggman art Member
    For me, it's easy: if it isn't as good as Generations, it isn't worth trying. It's the only 3D game I've really liked and enjoyed since Adventure 2, so it drew the line for future releases. Generations is the only game that made me enjoy the boost segments, and its wannabe 2D classic, while obviously not really classic at all, was fun and working enough. I hate Colours (Wii) so it's beyond my comprehension that anyone could like it, but there's quite a consensus about what forces looks like, so there's no doubt in this case. And I really wanted to mess with the character creation, but not like this and less with Denuvo's return (I'm a PC-only guy these days).

    About the plot, the monkeys mashed the keyboards in the keyboard-mashing monkeys' room they have in lieu of a real writer to write the script (they think the scrpit writer's room is for writing scripted automation). Well, maybe it's not that ridiculous IRL, but that would explain a lot of things better, and everything gets better with monkeys. Truth is they never bother too much with the script to avoid plotholes or give it a real depth, so let's say the hyperspace opening caused by the phantom ruby caught him at an unknown point in time and threw him out just a while before the Mania Sonic came out as well. Or maybe Robotnik started his plans at the center of some continent, and, since Sonic only visits islands, it took a while for him to notice the changes. Whatever.
  11. The sonic Lag occured from 2012 to august 2017 until sonic mania broke the chain and banished sonic boom to the dark realm. Lost world was entirely forgettable in both versions, rise of lyric (do i need to say anything, its about as far from a sonic game as you can get), Shattered crystal was boring, Fire and Ice was great but no one gave it a chance (cept ign). Then came Mania and Its Pardner (sonic is western in the story trailer) Forces. they Won back their respective crowds and started racing to glory. only thing is... Mania took the super happy nostalgia road while Forces took the risky "Your chances of survival are almost none but you get some kickass music, and new shit if you don't die" road. Mania finished its course and got praised by the holy king that is sonic pocket adventure. Sonic forces is currently undergoing the swinging pits of bug testing.

    wanted to use a silly way of talking for once. the dark cloud that looms over this thread needs to dissipate. imeanthisagameforkidssohumourneedstobepresent.
    Tell me i at least got a chuckle out of you humorless goats
  12. Chimera


    I'm not a furry. Tech Member
    Castlevania prettyness
    Few days late to the party, since we started talking about plot, Denuvo, and hooters, but...

    just gonna +1 this. White/Greyboxing, unless explicitly done otherwise, should always be invisible to the player no matter what. The player shouldn't see the raw level design, they should only see the level art *wrapped around* the greyboxes. Otherwise it's exposing the inner workings of the game, which often isn't the intention of a level *especially* if it's very environmentally driven, which Sonic is.

    And while Greyboxing is good workflow, it's also how Sonic Team has operated in the past already. It's basically *making collision for the stage.* I'm not sure if their workflow has been level design first art assets later (as it should be), but if it isn't, I wouldn't put it past them to make geometry that *looks* like it'd be sick to play on, and then create collision after that. Would explain all the edge case restrictions they build into the engine, honestly.

    Also, this isn't greyboxing. This is just boxing. Let's look at any level in any good video game. If you remove the background and only keep the elements of the stage you can come into direct contact with, you should have a *very clear idea* of what the stage's theme is. This includes hazards such as lava of course. Backdrops should only ever enhance the stage. However, Forces seems to be using their very expensive backdrops in stages like this as a crutch. Very elaborate setpiece design is used to decorate level layouts that BOTH mechanically and aesthetically look like they belong in some shitty warehouse. What about the level design of the game looks like Green/Sand hill? None. It's literally just crates. If you have enough stages using this level design model, then if you take out the backgrounds, you'll be playing what you think to be the same stage. That's VERY BAD DESIGN and if it can't be fixed, is either evident of objectively bad workflow (as in, this is all they can accomplish in the time they're given), or more indicative of their quality standards--as in, this is fine to them. Neither of those are good signs.

    If you mean that this will likely be replaces with more appropriate level art / objects by release, while I would hope that'd be the case I'm sorry to say it probably won't be. Sonic Team's no stranger to just placing random objects in the world and expecting it to work out. Along with that, using this generic crate item as the sole level design is an indication that they can't actually develop a good, cheap level with objects to begin with. it's literally just Mario Maker levels of tiles, except less interesting than Mario Maker! That's what really stings about this. The level design just plain isn't good, and if they managed to make something engaging out of objects that'd actually be quite something. It's not like making a sonic game out of tiles is impossible or anything :specialed: they just need the right base objects. But that's of course assuming their priorities were actually in making engaging 2D level layouts. Everything presented says the opposite. It looks more like they think Shadow will help sell the game, so better add him in as cheap as possible.

    Like seriously either they think they're doing a good job or this is the best they can do. And this was supposed to take 4 years of development time? What, did they try changing the formula again and realize too late that nothing worked, so they defaulted back to the 2008/11 style? Like MAYBE a game as huge in scope as this would work out if they had legitimate 4 years of prototyping and refinement behind them, but... that doesn't look like the case at all.

    This would honestly have been a much better game if it was just Modern sonic and they cut their losses. Hell if they didn't drag Classic back for this it'd probably be "fine." Guess they thought having him in the game would widen their market appeal. Instead this is just some bloated mess.

    Just... Jesus christ.
  13. oh we're going back to bashing this game on everything it does?

    I'll be back on November 8th with review scores.

    Edit: Sonic Colors this game managed to get 8.5/10 78% 8/10 despite its "horrible level design" maybe because it was FUN. You old farts should remember why you got into sonic in the first place, was it level design? perhaps physics? or because you labeled it fun?
  14. :rolleyes:

    Come on man, you've got 20 trial posts, don't fall into the ex trial member swamp. Let people express their opinions, don't be so emotionally involved.
  15. Dario FF

    Dario FF

    Tech Support Hotline Tech Member
    I mean...

    This is a Sonic game being marketed on anything but the levels themselves. And it's like 5-6 weeks away.

    I can't blame people for judging it even if it's technically early to do so. :v:
  16. TheKazeblade


    "Our Life is More than a Side-Effect" Member
    I've said it before, but in the case of Forces, those being negative or cautious about it are developing these opinions based off of what we've actually seen.

    Those clinging to hope it might actually be good is basing it off of what we haven't seen. AKA complete blind hope with no evidence to back it up. Either that or they're completely ignoring the negative signs already in play.

    Honestly, we're at a point now where the idea of Forces is going to be more harmful to the series than the game's merits (or lack thereof) themselves. A huge culmination of all the bad fanbase-dividing choices made in the past finally coming to roost. For the sake of the series, Sonic Team had better seriously re-think their approach in the future (or just think at all).
  17. Plorpus


    Hog Blue So What Member
    As well as 2005 (or 2003 if you count fan reactions. Heroes wasn't panned or anything but it was pretty Universal considered a step back.)-2010. This is excepting the portable games of course, but being on portables those weren't front and center like Shadow, 06, and Unleashed (which as much as I adored it wasn't received well). And no, it's pretty commonly accepted that Colors didn't have "terrible level design" like you claimed in your later post. Just Forces.

    I know how you feel. I was a teen once too. I also tried to convince myself I was enjoying Heroes as much as SA2, that Shadow wasn't that bad, and that the 06 demo I played at TGS was ok despite falling through the floor and using Shadow's infinite jump. But I eventually came to terms with the fact that just because you like a franchise doesn't mean it's consistently good. You're defending stuff and attacking others because you like Sonic, not because you know what you're talking about.

    No, and it kinda betrayed the fact that you aren't as old as you say you are.
  18. Only aspect of this game I still have high hopes for is the story. It has a decent foundation. Though I won't be surprised when it ends up really underwhelming and/or lacking substance. Just think about the premise and setting here. Taking what we've seen so far I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Infinite has no ties to the phantom ruby in Mania. If that's the case, there's really no reason for Classic Sonic to be there. It's modern sonic, his modern friends, and a resistance against modern eggman. I see through their little scheme to get more people to buy this game by tacking on Classic. I'm not amused.

    Still, you watch all the reveals and trailers on the official Sonic YouTube account, and the people are mostly hyped. Why? I couldn't tell you. I'd like to say it's just casual gamer fans who don't know any better, but what casual fan is gonna be subscribed to the official Sonic account in the first place?

    So prediction, Forces sells well but takes a beating in reviews. The higher ups at Sega won't understand why for the 12th fucking time and start work on a new project even more distant from what makes good sonic gameplay. The cycle will keep repeating itself, and it won't be until an actual outside dev team comes in and takes the reigns that we will actually get another amazing modern sonic game.

  19. April 27th 1999. Forgive me for trying to make someone on this damn board smile and now im deluding myself into thinking i like 06 when i honestly do?
  20. Sean Evans

    Sean Evans

    Professional Dork Member
    Sonic Overture, Sonic Utopia
    C'mon, we know why. The Sonic fanbase is diverse and varied, many different people want a lot of different things out of it, because it appeals to varying interest. That's not really a good thing in this case. I'm pretty sure we're all unified in wanting a good game, but how we set our standards for what we call good is where the line starts to be made. Many of us here look at things like controls, mechanics, aesthetics, music, and how all of this wraps around to make a very solid product with a good understanding of what it is, and what people will get out of it. But some people just care about seeing their favorite character in the game, or seeing a certain gameplay style being used, or seeing certain story elements at play.

    Sonic Team hit the jackpot in this instance because they managed to accumulate all of the most shallow things about the series that people like anyway, and glue them all together with little effort. It's the illusion of cognition when there really isn't any. Throw a SA2 remix in here, or a reference to Heroes there. Maybe a little SA1 and a hint of 06. If we cherry pick enough people can't see through the obvious lack of effort on our part. I'm not saying those people are wrong for liking Forces, it's a matter of perspective and taste, but you can't deny that a lot of why certain people (a lot of whom are in those comment sections on the Youtube videos) like Forces is really shallow, surface level stuff that doesn't account for the actual quality of the product.