Sonic Forces Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Blue Blood, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    Seeing Iizuka talk so passionately about Mania and talk so frankly about Forces sums it up for me. Even if he has his own ideas for the series that I may or may not agree with, Forces is a game that Iizuka and Sonic Team aren't interested in. Right from day one when it was announced alongside Mania, Forces has felt like a product that they were told to make. We have no proof that it was the result of executive meddling and focus groups, but all things considered it's hard to see it any other way.

    I hope this game bombs in such a way that SEGA completely rethink what he hell they're doing (although that's a double edged sword cause SEGA never interprets data correctly or sensibly). Just for the record, I don't want this game to perform well because I think it's pretty poor and sets a terrible president as a way forwards. I want better Sonic games to come along and for them to do really well. In a ideal world, Forces would be a good game to begin with.
     
  2. Crasher

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    Going by what the credits imply earlier, maybe it's just the difference in directors? Colours and Lost World were both pretty experimental, and I think that's due to the director of the game. Maybe the same thing is happening here, but with a bigger budget.

    But, then you have to wonder what the other directors are working on - or if they're still a part of Sonic Team.

     
  3. Xiao Hayes

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    So, could it mean Iizuka wants to do the right things, but Sega doesn't let him try? As if he really knew Mania was a right idea ant took advantage of Mania team being indies if, by any chance, at that kind of level and budget Sega would tolerate the experiment, but not if official Sonic Team asked to do it themselves with the usual budget. Hell, almost sounds as if Iizuka was Retro's inside man, confessing his sin and righting his past wrongs. Maybe he's the one with the master plan this time, and a brighter future is really about to happen. Sorry, I got carried away; it's Sega, they'll fuck 3D Sonic up as always.
     
  4. 360

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    Yeah it might actually be a good thing if the game bombs and they're forced to re-work the Sonic formula for the next game. Consider the opposite scenario - the DeviantArt and teenage crowd makes this sell millions and we get an equally ridiculous Sonic Forces 2. I know which scenario I'd prefer. Honestly reminds me of the unconfirmed (were they proven to be bullshit?) rumours a while back that claimed Sonic Team are overworked, tired and out of energy and passion, with Sonic Generations being a blip on the radar in terms of games they actually cared about. I'm thinking the rumours may have been true because I'm seeing zero creative passion with this game. It's very by the numbers, uninspired, devoid of life and colour, with focus group shit tacked on, a nervous and worrisome budget price, a terrible soundtrack and the most absurd story I'm yet to see in a Sonic game - and that's saying a lot after Sonic Adventure 2 where Robotnik fucking blew up the moon. I so wanted this game to be good but every signal thus far indicates it won't be.

    Hopefully Sonic Mania sells millions and that dictates the future of the series. Iizuka did indicate as much in that interview (Mania does well = more 2D Sonic/Mania 2).
     
  5. serpx

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    This game bombing would definitely make Sonic Team/SEGA rethink things, with classic Sonic in mind. Conversely, we don't need more bombs with the Sonic franchise (unless Bean gets cameos hurhur). Sonic needs to keep up this successful string of titles for the franchise to recover, IMHO.
     
  6. Tiller

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    There are too many people actually excited for Forces to see it bomb. As far as implementation goes it isn't a buggy mess like Boom from what we can tell. And while the avatar, Infinite, and the tone are contributing to giant internet memestorm, it also caters to that section of the Sonic fandom. ST knew exactly what they are doing with this game's theming. They just don't have any idea how to improve what they have from a design level. In many ways, Forces looks to regress from Generations even if just comparing the early stages.
     
  7. Dark Sonic

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    I'd prob be more mad if Mania didn't exist. But it does and it's wonderful. So that's why I still think this is ok. Because I'm not added enough to get myself worked up over it. Part of me wants this to bomb to make Sega learn a lesson. But the other part of me hopes the fans of this stuff enjoy it.
     
  8. I think that's what disappoints me most. I'm 100% for dumb memes and silly shit but this is like, the gameplay shouldn't need a downgrade for this to happen. I am entirely fine with Modern Sonic not being that serious an ordeal but the quality of gameplay looking like such a large step down is where I get a little miffed.
     
  9. Laughingcow

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    You know, I'd just like to point out that Mario + Rabbids is a thing that's happening. Here's the opening.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4aV06BFrg4&t=4s

    It's crazy, experimental, and alien to the Mario franchise and the Rayman franchise. Everything about it should fail but it doesn't. Mario has a gun in this game and they made it work.

    Now look at Sonic Forces. Just look at it. This whole game is just Story DLC for Sonic Generations. It doesn't stand on it's own.

    Edit: This game has SWEARING! We have a Mario game with curse words. No joke, one of the weapons is called "Hell in the Shell". How did this happen?
     
  10. Beltway

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    If this game was on a tighter budget, we probably would had gotten two years ago. Forces has been in production for the past four years, that implies the opposite of Sonic Team having less resources to work with; unless the game's production has been a dumpster fire behind the scenes.

    I have some doubts that the way Forces is shaping up is a result of pressure from Sega. Sonic Team has an established history of making a lot of questionable decisions on how they design their games on their own accords, Iizuka himself is on record for explaining fans sending him and the team their Sonic OCs was the reason they decided to create the Custom Hero element of the game. Shun Nakamura being Forces' producer also explains a lot on the game's sharply different direction in presentation from recent titles, considering it's the same guy behind Sonic 2006. In addition, whatever meddling Sega has usually done with Sonic games (X-treme, Sonic 2006, Boom: RoL) typically aren't related to creative differences or design decisions; and Taxman/Stealth/PWG were also largely left to their devices when designing Mania (and the one design choice they didn't make--having remixed old levels with new levels--was a call by Iizuka).

    However, Sonic Team actively reverting to a previous formula (as opposed to continuing to the new one they introduced with Lost World or changing it to yet another thing) is rather unprecedented of them, and both Sega of Japan and Sonic Team were described as the groups responsible for BRB's Sonic Synergy project being retooled into Rise of Lyric when the BRB developer interview from Sonic Paradise surfaced. And Forces not only having game trying to "please everybody" and throwing in almost everything and the kitchen sink, but also having a clear lack of the polish in its the game design (despite being in development for four years), really does give the impression that Sonic Team are filling a studio's chair instead of rather than making a game they genuinely wanted to make, even less so than past Sonic games since Unleashed. So you may be right that Sega (of Japan) may hold some influence on how Forces is turning out.

    With all that said, though, I do agree with you on your second point: the game's performance needs to send a message to Sega that says "nope, rethink and restart from scratch" instead of "yes, more of this please". If that means the game has to flop in one way or another to send that message (which, given the background of the game/series, seems pretty likely IMO), then so be it.
     
  11. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    As far as the character creator goes, Iizuka said they put it in because fans always send in their characters, yes. But that could get much mean "SEGA told us to put it in because fans always send in their characters". And I know Sonic Team had a seriously bad history of bad ideas, but Forces (and Sonic 4) really stands out as something that is purely about surface level appeal and not a game that anyone involved in actually cares about. This is still all a theory based on guesses though.

    Also, regarding Mania, it was Iizuka's idea to make it a full sized original game including remixed levels rather than another compilation but this time with a few original levels in the side.
     
  12. I'm curious to see the interviews that gave you that impression. I don't pay attention to tone when reading these things.
     
  13. Shaddy the guy

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    Not that it's wrong any more than usual, but whenever I see Iizuka talk about anything he looks and sounds like he's staring at a slightly-burnt grilled cheese sandwich. I can't honestly get much of an impression at all from the guy.
     
  14. Arcaden

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    I'm an extremely optimistic person and I'm very excited to play Forces, although I do have some concerns. From what we've seen so far with the short levels and Sonic's almost Crash Bandicoot-like snapping to the direction you press on the stick, the game looks like another Sonic Colors (which makes sense considering who's making it). And while I liked Sonic Colors, the controls always felt a little off and I could never properly land my jumps in 3D, and the levels were way too gimmicky and short to be replayable. Most of the levels (with the exception of at least 1 good level per zone) was essentially "you know that one specific type of platform from Act 1? Let's make the entirety of this act out of that one platform". Sega also seems to be removing even more momentum elements this time (specifically I'm referring to how locked at 1 speed you seem to be on the grind rails). And because of how long the game's been in development I'm expecting it to actually be a little bit lengthy this time. Other than that, I'm still excited to play it.

    Oh and I loved Sonic Heroes so the Tag Team gameplay looks very appealing to me.
     
  15. Nicky Ali

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    Well just watched off screen footage from GameXplain and it looks like Sonic still has his idle skydiving animation from Lost World, which is great but... it's just a bit more awkward looking now that the OC is copying him.
    [​IMG]

    (Also I got this ad for Mario Odyssey and was genuinely disappointed when it ended)
     
  16. Haxhabte

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    I just watched the tag team gameplay of Sonic Forces and to be honest, I'm disappointed. I didn't expect something that was too different from Sonic's stages or the avatar stages but i feel like it's even more bland and uninteresting. The entire stage is literally a hallway with a high and low path the only difference being that the high path is a shortcut and the low path is slower with more enemies. Nothing is different beyond that.

    I personally enjoyed the gameplay and level design of sonic generations modern sonic levels. They got creative with multiple pathways and exploration in that game despite being limited with the linearity that comes with the boost formula, but this is just bad. Once the level ends all i can think is "thats it?" It's really underwhelming. I want sonic forces to be good but as time goes by my hope just keeps fading away. I don't understand how sega can nail level design in one game well then a few games later it gets worse.
     
  17. Had a random thought, considering that this game is effectively "Generations 2 in spirit", the music is so cheesy, AND that you can make your own character... If the credits theme for this game isn't "Sonic Youth" by Crush 40 I'm going to riot. //forums.sonicretro.org/public/style_emoticons/default/colbert.png
     
  18. Linkabel

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    The only thing I don't get about the tag team stages are if you can switch between Sonic and the OC like Heroes or the game does it for you. Anyone know?
     
  19. Aerosol

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    You know what bugs me? That the OC character is just as fast as Sonic is.

    I mean, Sonic's asset is his speed. He's the glass cannon at the front in the crusade against Eggman because he's super fast.

    But so is the OC? Huh? It's only a problem because Sonic Forces has a fleshed out story, with Sonic at the center as the premier hero. And his only asset is his speed. Which the OC also has now.
     
  20. Frostav

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    I mean, Tails and Knuckles are as fast as Sonic.

    Actually, practically every damn character in the series can run as fast as Sonic.