Sonic Forces Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Blue Blood, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. Dark Sonic

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    Well, sales wise it's kinda hard to pinpoint where this game will be since the last time Sonic saw a release outside of a Nintendo console was I think Sonic 4 Episode 2, which is now 5 years old. So if you only own an Xbox or Playstation console that's the last Sonic game you had the chance to buy. Sonic's gone down quality wise since then but the social media account is strong and Boom is a very mixed bag, so Sonic has a simultaneously better and worse reputation than in 2012. Another thing that throws in some complications though is that unlike the last console generation, there's no B version of this game (By that I mean things like Colors DS, Lost World 3DS, Generations 3DS, that stuff), which removes incentive to buy the game twice. Like I own Generations on PC and 3DS, but I'm not going to buy this for the PC and PS4 since that'd be pointless. So I'm personally not sure where this game will end up.

    I feel like they've been pushing for Mania though, and given it's positive reception I think it'll sell well. I'm surprised they didn't do a mobile version though, I'm sure most phones are capable of it and it'd probably would have sold a ton of copies like most of the mobile Sonic ports. I'm interested to see what they do with this game once Mania comes out, as they're definitely concentrating on that one more for obvious reason right now.
     
  2. Blast Brothers

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    Something occurred to me earlier: Are Sonic Forces' chances of financial success hurt by Sonic Mania's delay to August? I have two reasons as to why the answer could be yes.

    First, the elephant in the room: Forcerations Classic getting directly compared to Mania once both are out. With Generations, Iizuka Teamâ„¢ attempted to emulate the gameplay of the Genesis titles, but ended up creating a completely different beast. Is it close to the Genesis games in terms of structure, design philosophy, or level design? No. Does that make it bad? No. Mania, meanwhile, sticks much closer to the Genesis games, although that doesn't automatically make it superior. Most people likely don't see the difference, but can "feel" it on some level. People who buy Mania and find its gameplay fun could go into Forces expecting the same thing- and walk away disappointed. People who liked Forcerations gameplay might buy Mania anyway because they don't see the difference, like it, and then be confused about why Forces Classic, the game they wanted, feels off.

    Second, how will the larger gaming community (read: not you) look at both games as news and reactions about them break? Mania hype is off the charts, so it'll continue to receive the most focus, likely before and for some time after release. Consider a hypothetical Youtube channel that decides to cash in on the hype and launches a let's play soon after the game comes out. How long would it take for the series to end? Well, Mania has about 15 zones, 3 playable characters, and lots of secrets, hidden special stages, etc... The channel could end up producing 40- 45 episodes. Release one every three or four days, and there's not a lot of time left for just Forces coverage. The channel will have to give Forces news that comes out during this period second billing because the Mania content is so popular. (Note that YouTube is just an example- more info dump-driven stuff -magazines, websites, even Sega's own ad campaigns, potentially- could have the same problem.) Therefore, Forces loses an opportunity to grow its audience.

    Now, I'm sure some of you are wondering what all this has to do with Mania's delay. Well, both problems would be lessened greatly. People would have time to look back on Mania post-hype and see what could've improved the experience. No game is perfect, and pointing out some of Mania's flaws could lessen misinformed fans from expecting too much of Forces. Game media (despite truly being bad at its job) would have time to give Forces news a serious look into, preventing Mania hype from overwriting it. Forces would gain precious months basking in the Sega news spotlight to widen its appeal and make up for lost ground.

    Regardless of its intent, Mania's delay could cripple Forces.
     
  3. Quintessential

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    I didn't consider Sonic Generations to be that good of a game, but I do think a game that plays like a sequel to it might have at least been decent with some major improvements to the gameplay. Namely, Classic Sonic playing much closer to the main Genesis games and Modern Sonic being in full 3D with improved controls. Also, while this doesn't have to do with the gameplay itself, I would have really wanted the gameplay styles to be set in their own campaigns; that way, you wouldn't abruptly be forced to switch between gameplay styles, making for a smoother, less jarring experience. Sadly, Forces doesn't seem to improve any of the gameplay styles we saw in Generations and is going to keep them all in a single campaign once again. The new gameplay style for the avatar looks really bad and unnecessary, in my opinion. And I just can't take the game's plot seriously; I almost think it's a self-parody. Hopefully, the next 3D Sonic game will be much better, although I've been saying this for years now, lol.
     
  4. Beltway

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  5. Jason

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    Its fate is sealed.

    I don't think Forces is directly competing with Mania at all. Two teams, two approaches, two audiences, two storefronts. I'm pretty sure that's one of the big reasons it's not currently getting a physical release: to have Forces be the only new Sonic game on store shelves this year.
     
  6. Sparks

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    Wasn't Arin invited to the Sonic Mania panel at SDCC?
     
  7. GagaMan

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    So I take it they are getting a copy in advance from Sega to do that? Wow, I take they see any publicity as good publicity..
     
  8. Sir_mihael

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    Oh wow. Although at this point it's kinda clear to see he's just taking a jab to bait responses. At this point it's best to accept that if these guys aren't touching a Sonic game, it's probably because it's actually alright. Meanwhile, regardless of Forces' quality, there's going to be plenty to poke fun at.
     
  9. Laura

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    I'm not entirely sure what I think of Webber getting so friendly with Egoraptor. I understand that Egoraptor's being deliberately OTT with his hatred of Sonic, and I do find Egoraptor funny (I don't watch his videos mind), but he's also undeniably hugely influential (like most YTers) and is a large reason why the current misguided criticisms of early Sonic games keep getting thrown around. I wouldn't mind so much if these misguided criticisms didn't keep permeating into mainstream critics who occasionally make claims that Sonic "was never good", "completely trial and error", "all about speed" with no "gameplay mechanics" etc. It feeds into Sonic's direction, and it usually leads to embarrassments like Lost World.

    I just think it's a bit pathetic in a way - the only way Sonic can survive as a brand is by sucking up to vehement detractors. That the only option for Sonic's internet presence is damage control - essentially making Egoraptor's criticisms somewhat more light-hearted than they were typically taken because the Sonic brand directly states his jokes against the franchise's expense are funny. I mean it's probably working, I think people used to use his criticisms in a more dismissive way until Sonic's Twitter blew up and Sonic's persona become 'lovable' and consumer friendly. It's probably worked on a pragmatic level, but I do find it rather pathetic, it's not something I'd imagine a successful game franchise doing (and that's probably the crux of the problem).

    It's not something that annoys me at all, I have no problem with Egoraptor not liking the game, but I find Sonic's Social Media presence going out of its way to appease him pretty pitiful, it's like Egoraptor is more relevant and important than the Sonic brand. Some might argue that's true, but it doesn't make it any less sad.
     
  10. Beltway

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    Gonna be absolutely honest right now--the increasing amount of physical stuff Mania's been getting that all stop short of an physical release of the game itself (as well as the background of this particular project and Sega's substantial lack of Western releases as of late) has me seriously questioning the arguments on resource constraints being the main roadblock toward a physical release.

    An executive veto from the higher ups made on the basis of some flimsy excuse would be perfectly in line with Sega's history of misguided beliefs and dumb decisions, and is thus a far more believable culprit IMO.

    Didn't Sega refuse to send advance copies for the first two Sonic Boom games?
     
  11. Dark Sonic

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    They probably did that because they knew they were garbage
     
  12. Sean Evans

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    People thrashed Sonic long before Arin came and "exposed" the franchise. People who were relatively big youtubers as well. The difference was, Sonic wasn't too far gone at that point. But with most of his line-up ranging from mediocre to outright bad, how else is anyone supposed to perceive the continued existence of this shit show as anything more than a fluke? It all goes back to that Nintendo saying. Takes five years to build a brand, and two years to ruin it. Once the series starts releasing consistently good content, then maybe they can earn the trust of the average consumer back. But until then, expect to here, "Sonic was never good", because the series deserves it. Meanwhile Aaron's choice to get the grumps more involved in Sonic is to demonstrate that Arin doesn't "hate" the franchise. He just likes to play up the joke for laughs. The Sonic Twitter was primarily all about making fun of the stupidity of Sonic in recent years, and being good sports about it. So it makes sense to take what Arin says with a grain of salt. Nothing pathetic about it.

    I also recall Arin saying he thought Lost World was an okay game.
     
  13. Overlord

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    Given the treatment S3&K got, I hope the Grumps never play Mania.
     
  14. VectorCNC

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    On the contrary, Mania and Forces are almost assuredly competing for the future direction of the franchise. Sega always goes where the money is, it doesn't matter how illogical or shortsighted their actions may appear. It seems safe to say at this point that Mania will outshine Forces, and it looks like a perfect launching point to reinvigorate the series. It may appear that Sega is dedicated to the 3D boost formula, but then why shoe-horn Classic into another modern game? The optics are bad, but Sega thinks both that including Classic Sonic is just a means to catching a few more nostalgic consumers, and that it fills out the game. Therefore, Sega has already opened the door in terms of how a contemporary Sonic game should play. Mania will become the strongest indicator of where the series needs to go that Sega has had in a long time. But Mania has 2 major disadvantages to modern games like Forces. First, retro games are generally niche, and second, small scope games (and I realize that is controversial but hear me out) can't fetch the same price and profit of large scale games such as Forces. Development costs aside, consider that Forces is priced at 3 times as much as Mania... If Sega realizes that they can overcomes the niche market by upgrading Classic Sonic graphics to modern standards (think S2HD), create a larger sized game (think NSMB), and maintain the heart and attention to detail on display in Mania, then it seems reasonable that Classic Sonic would receive top billing going forward. Let's not forget that 2D games are generally way more accessible to consumers at large.

    The critical acclaim in the media for Mania alone emphasizes that an opportunity has presented itself, at a time where Sonic's appeal is clearly running on fumes. This doesn't mean Modern Sonic will vanish, but will take second fiddle. I say this with confidence because the production costs associated with Modern Sonic are too high to justify continuing business as usual, demand is tanking, and despite nearly 2 decades of refinement the modern formula is still has fundamental flaws. If Sega moves forward in the Classic direction, then Modern would likely be relegated to cell phone runner games, and the occasional Adventure-style game.

    If Forces bombs, and Mania thrives, then even a Sega executive should know what to do.
     
  15. Sean Evans

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    I'm willing to bet they won't. Remember they only even touched the original games because Jirard (a fan of the classics) was on Guest Grumps, and wanted to play it. Arin and Ross never actually played the game themselves, and while Jirard wasn't too bad, he made a lot of mistakes here and there. The only way I see them playing Mania is if enough people ask them to do it, which probably won't happen.
     
  16. Beltway

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    If this EB Games Australia page is correct, we may have a leaked release date for Forces--November 7, 2017.

    That puts Forces up against Super Mario Odyssey, Super Lucky's Tale, and Lego Marvel Super Heroes 2 in terms of direct competition (games aiming for the same demographics / genre market); and the likes of Assassin's Creed, Wolfenstein, Call of Duty, Need for Speed, Pokemon, and Star Wars regarding general major releases.
     
  17. Sid Starkiller

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  18. Dark Sonic

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    Well they wanted a holiday release, this is to be expected.

    RIP Sonic Forces, have fun being outsold by Mania :v:
     
  19. Overlord

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    Yeah, I can see Forces being destroyed just by Mario alone, never mind the dudebrahs with CoD and the AssCreed players. Thing is, they don't really have a lot of option - Sonic's the flagship title and Forces is the AAA release, no matter the quality. Got to TRY and get the Xmas sales and hope to longtail it.
     
  20. VectorCNC

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    Damn it! If only no other games were being sold...