Sonic Forces Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Blue Blood, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. Yes, I would accuse you of complaining and whining about the story not being like how it was in the Adventure games because that was the content of what you wrote. You used Sonic Adventure as an example of what you thought Sonic Lost World's story should have been and you called Sonic Lost World's story an excuse plot because it wasn't like what you wanted. Therefore, I consider my accusation toward the motivation behind your reasoning to be adequately justified. Also, I couldn't care less about the specifics of why people knowingly make judgments toward Sonic Team that aren't really merited. If you or anybody else is constantly complaining about things that are in reality completely inoffensive in the grand scheme of things, then I doubt that this comes from being passionate about the series and it more likely than not stems from overblown pessimism.

    They've used the boost gameplay style for three games and in each subsequent one, they have made great improvements. In Sonic Unleashed, Sonic had comparatively more slippery controls and it made platforming difficult. Precision platforming was definitely not that good. In Colors and Generations, Sonic controls much better in comparison and they've retained the majority of the mechanics that were in the previous game, improved those, then made different changes to some of the other ones. One of Sonic Forces's alterations to the gameplay is that the Air Boost makes Sonic travel slightly upward. This is indubitably an example of them refining their mechanics. Therefore, the claim of them not solidifying their mechanics isn't even true and it's an example of an unjustified complaint. The mechanics in these games are arguably more solidified than the mechanics in the Adventure-style games were.


    On another note, a thing that several people don't understand is that because of how fundamentally different a 2D game and a 3D game is, it's very difficult for a 3D Sonic game to be like a 2D Sonic game, especially regarding the aspect of level design. In the 2D games, you can generally see the same distance to the left, right, above, and below Sonic. In a 3D Sonic game, however, you can see as far forward as the game allows, but you're not able to see behind Sonic very easily.
     
  2. Beltway

    Beltway

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    If you look back at my previous post, you'll see I was referring to precision-based platforming and Mario's jumping abilities in unison. Of course there are other platformers that have precision-based platforming and there are platformers based on the character's jumping abilities, but I wasn't referring to them individually. Can you name platformers that have both elements as part of the core gameplay, rather than just focus on one? (Not trying to be rude here, just curious.)

    Moreover, any platformer can have these things, but how these games are designed around such elements are what really defines their gameplay. For example, Mario, Sonic, and Yoshi all have the ability to jump in their games (for the specific gameplay reference here, I'll be referring to Super Mario World, Sonic 2, and Yoshi's Island in these instances). But their jumps are not only designed different from each other, but each of them are also designed in correspondence with the other core mechanics in their games. In Super Mario World, Mario has a running toggle and a additional spin jump. In Yoshi's Island, Yoshi has his enemy eating and egg-throwing abilities. In Sonic 2, Sonic has rolling and Spin Dash. Would you really say the jumping abilities in Yoshi and Sonic's games are the primary focus of their gameplay compared to the jumping abilities in Mario games?

    Similarly, Donkey Kong (Donkey Kong Country), Sonic (Sonic CD), and Samus (Super Metroid) both have the ability to roll in their games. But while Sonic's rolling abilities is designed more around his momentum, rolling in Donkey Kong games are based more on his platforming, and Samus's rolling is more on exploration. Sonic's rolling is primarily for building speed, Donkey Kong's rolling is primarily for making giant jumps, Samus's rolling is for squeezing through small paths she normally wouldn't be able to do. (Note that I said primarily here. That's not to say only one element has any influence in each game, I'm just saying one element is a larger focus of the game compared to the others.)

    _

    To bring this back and tie it with to 3D Mario gameplay, notice how the added 3D mechanics are still tied to Mario's jumping? Wall jumping, the long jump, and the ground pound, for starters? Two of those are only activated by doing a standard jump, while the long jump is an alternate jumping mechanic, with its own special advantages (longer distance) and its drawbacks (lower height) compared to the basic jump. And those are just three of the added 3D mechanics I've mentioned. They didn't just throw in these mechanics for the sake of it.

    Moreover, notice that how effective these elements are still depend on to the player's positioning/aiming with Mario (which is where the second element about precision-based platforming comes in). Simply running into a wall, jumping into it, and jumping off of it isn't going to get you to that higher platform, these mechanics don't just simply "work" when you use them. You have to think about where you're going to jump and where you intend to land for them to them to truly help you get to your goal. You can still see these core mechanics in play, even in the less obstacle course-driven sandbox levels.

    This lines up very closely with the core gameplay with the 2D games. Think about the times you've had to time and space your jumps to land on enemies or land safely onto moving platforms. Or being close enough to pick up items like boxes or Koopa shells, and throwing them at the right time and at the right spot to hit that block or Goomba at a distance. This is where I say jumping and aiming are still the highlight of Mario's core game mechanics in the sandbox 3D Mario titles.

    To get a better idea of what I'm talking about, think about these elements I've been saying when looking at this standard walkthrough of 64's Whomp's Fortress.

     
  3. Stimil Rc.

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    Off the top of my head, I'd say both the Yoshi and Donkey Kong Country games, but both of those are offshoots of the Super Mario Bros. games to begin with.

    I wasn't referring to them individually either, but I'm having a much harder time that I thought I would answering this.
    Maybe not Sonic, but Yoshi, definitely. The Yoshis have a flutter jump and, just like Mario, can also frequently bounce off of enemies at the right moment to gain much greater height. I'd say that utilizing the Yoshis' jumping abilities is just as important as eating enemies and precisely firing eggs. Oftentimes, you'll need to do both for 100%.

    I know you were specifically talking about the first game, but I'd like to make note of the fact that Yoshi's Island DS went as far as having the Yoshis' movements (among other qualities) augmented based on the baby riding their back: Mario lets them run, Peach lets them float up updrafts, and Donkey Kong gimps their flutter, but gives them a tackle that functions similarly to the roll in the DKC games in that they can perform a midair jump after dashing off of ledges.

    I think I get what you're saying now. I guess in this sense, Super Mario 64 could be considered an even more extreme version of what Metroid Prime was. Prime was a huge shift in control and perspective from Super, but Retro tried to stay true to the pseudo-nonlinear level design that requires tools scattered across the planet to navigate like in the prior games and had most of Samus's abilities function similarly to how they previously did. 64 has practically nothing in common with the prior Mario games in terms of control, level design, and powerups (besides the Wing Cap making use of momentum similarly to the Cape), but still gives Mario several different types of jumps and forces the player to use them precisely to navigate akin to how the prior games did.
     
  4. LowSeasCaroz

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    We already speculated on the absence of an extra lives system, but now it's been confirmed. Not a big deal to me.
     
  5. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Good. Even Mario Odyssey got rid of lives and replaced it with a coin loss system. They're an unnecessary holdover from the 2D days at this point.
     
  6. LukyHRE

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    First impressions from NintendoLife are in, and they aren't good. I'm not surprised, really.
     
  7. LowSeasCaroz

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    Lol, Nintendolife's video of the game is literally called "Sonic Forces IS BAD", while the article basically says "These two stages aren't very good, and I thought this bossfight was boring".

    Only thing missing really is "NOT CLICKBAIT!" in the title.
     
  8. Linkabel

    Linkabel

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    I stopped reading righ there.
     
  9. Rudie Radio Waves

    Rudie Radio Waves

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    They don't have the master plan.
     
  10. Same here, the tone of that article was all kinds of messed up.
     
  11. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    I started reading right there.

    And it was a good read.
     
  12. Lobotomy

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    Oh good he dragged out the old "MUH SPEED AS REWAURD" meme. That was a pretty garbage article. At least point at something wrong with the game with some level of precision without waxing cynical Sonic fan. That's our fucking job, it doesn't sound natural when he does it.

    That said, this whole game looks like a fucking mess, but at least I'll get to play with Hedgehog Engine 2 in a few months, because it looks pretty, if nothing else.. Hope they didn't fuck up basic character movement like I suspect they have.
     
  13. synchronizer

    synchronizer

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    It's a lighting engine.
     
  14. Violet

    Violet

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    https://twitter.com/sonic_hedgehog/status/882992621039230976
     
  15. Atendega

    Atendega

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    I've liked every song we've heard from this game so far but...

    This is absolutely fucking terrible :flunked:

    Please for the love of god take the words back out, it was better instrumental
     
  16. Beltway

    Beltway

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    The lyrics are....actually fine, for the most part?

    I liked them a lot better than the Custom Hero Park Avenue vocals. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    They feel right at home with Live and Learn and Sonic Heroes to me. :v
     
  17. LowSeasCaroz

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    Holy shit they got the Game Grumps to sing for a Sonic theme!!

    ... seriously, the guy sounds like Danny, and the background singer sounds like Arin Hanson.

    It's a much better song than Sonic Heroes, but that really isn't saying much. I'm not a native English speaker, so the lyrics don't offend me as deeply as many of you here apparently. Oh well. I miss the times when Johnny Gioeli could sing -_-
     
  18. Atendega

    Atendega

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    Actually now I've listened to it 10 times, it's growing on me

    What is happening

    Is this like musical Stockholm Syndrome

    EDIT: Yeah I love it now what the fuck
     
  19. Sonic Warrior TJ

    Sonic Warrior TJ

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    This game, you guys. There's just something entertaining about this game. It's hilarious. I lost my shit and laughed for nearly 30 minutes straight when the character creator was announced. I had to listen to the theme song again because I laughed through it after seeing it was the guy from Hoobastank. Like...is this game real? Have I been trapped in a dream for the last few months? I'm still excited, and am going to get it day one, but wow, I wonder if the game itself will make me laugh as much as the reveals have.
     
  20. GagaMan

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    The soundtrack to this game so far has been such a weird hodgepodge of nonsense. The OSTs are usually the only thing you can really rely on being good in mainline titles as well lol.