Sonic Fan Remix

Discussion in 'Fangaming Discussion' started by pelikan13, Mar 13, 2010.

  1. Aerosol

    Aerosol

    FML and FU2 Moderator
    10,619
    83
    28
    Not where I want to be.
    Sonic (?): Coming summer of 2055...?
    Oh brother.

    Just be slick about it, yea? I mean, the last thing we want is for the game to get shutdown because money is being made from it! That could have horrible, cascading consequences for the community as a whole, I think.

    And Jasonchrist...that would get them in far more trouble than just selling the game would. Circumvention of copyright law comes to mind.
     
  2. kazade

    kazade

    Member
    64
    0
    0
    A 2D Physics Engine
    <!--quoteo(post=531274:date=Nov 18 2010, 11:44 AM:name=Damizean)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Damizean @ Nov 18 2010, 11:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=531274">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=530883:date=Nov 17 2010, 02:31 PM:name=Deef)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Deef @ Nov 17 2010, 02:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=530883">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sigh. Wish I understood it more.
    Curious though... if SFR is using the method that doesn't let him pass through enemies, walls, etc, then how come he still passes through the odd ring?

    Unity sounds like a bugger. :/<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Unity provides you with a time delta value (how many time elapsed since the last update) which you can use to move your objects so the movement is frame rate independant. However if the delta is too big, you may move them farther than what you expected, having the objects move through walls/enemies/objects. You can either use a fixed timer for the physics (FixedUpdate) or subdivide that delta value in multiple steps.

    Code (Text):
    1. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;/// <summary>
    2. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;/// At every update step, we subdivide the amount of time
    3. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;/// elapsed to a fixed framerate, to have the logic run at
    4. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;/// the same speed regardless of the CPU speed.
    5. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;/// </summary>
    6. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;public void Update()
    7. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;{
    8. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;if (init == false) return;
    9.  
    10. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;// Calculate elapsed logic frames on this update.
    11. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;float overallDeltaTime = Game.FramesPerSecond * Time.smoothDeltaTime;
    12. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;do
    13. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;{
    14. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;// Compute this cycle's delta time.
    15. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;float deltaTime = Mathf.Min(overallDeltaTime, 1.0f);
    16.  
    17. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;// Update!
    18. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;UpdatePosition(deltaTime);
    19. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;}
    20. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;while ((--overallDeltaTime) > 0.0f);
    21. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;}
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This link is a great read for this stuff: <a href="http://gafferongames.com/game-physics/fix-your-timestep/" target="_blank">http://gafferongames.com/game-physics/fix-your-timestep/</a>

    It shows how to use a fixed physics timestep and keep it independent from the framerate (delta).
     
  3. Mercury

    Mercury

    His Name Is Sonic Tech Member
    <!--quoteo(post=530883:date=Nov 17 2010, 02:31 PM:name=Deef)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Deef @ Nov 17 2010, 02:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=530883">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Curious though... if SFR is using the method that doesn't let him pass through enemies, walls, etc, then how come he still passes through the odd ring?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The Ring collision is handled with the OnCollisionStay() function, which I'm pretty sure isn't affected by the framerate, so I don't why he'd pass through Rings. I don't remember it ever happening to me. I wish Unity were more consistent.
     
  4. CraigRobbo

    CraigRobbo

    Member
    15
    0
    0
    <!--quoteo(post=532547:date=Nov 22 2010, 03:43 PM:name=hogofddyn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hogofddyn @ Nov 22 2010, 03:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=532547">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Erm, forgive me if this sounds obvious and has been considered before, but as you can't sell this have you thought about sticking a donate button on the site? I'd happily donate something equivalent to a retail game price for this to continue development.

    Love the graphical style, it's just as I'd imagined Sonic would look on decent hardware, especially like the Whale set piece as it shows off the 3d, more set pieces pls! :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    I must agree.

    I do not think that donating to this project would infringe copyright laws, more so if the donation was to help the project and was not a 'profit' dontion.

    Again, I would also gladly chip in for your time an effort on this game.

    As a side note, and I hope NOT to offend with this, but to save copyrights etc etc, could you not approach sega to market this?

    Craig
     
  5. Aerosol

    Aerosol

    FML and FU2 Moderator
    10,619
    83
    28
    Not where I want to be.
    Sonic (?): Coming summer of 2055...?
    <!--quoteo(post=533929:date=Nov 27 2010, 08:58 PM:name=CraigRobbo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CraigRobbo @ Nov 27 2010, 08:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=533929">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=532547:date=Nov 22 2010, 03:43 PM:name=hogofddyn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hogofddyn @ Nov 22 2010, 03:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=532547">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Erm, forgive me if this sounds obvious and has been considered before, but as you can't sell this have you thought about sticking a donate button on the site? I'd happily donate something equivalent to a retail game price for this to continue development.

    Love the graphical style, it's just as I'd imagined Sonic would look on decent hardware, especially like the Whale set piece as it shows off the 3d, more set pieces pls! :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    I must agree.

    I do not think that donating to this project would infringe copyright laws, more so if the donation was to help the project and was not a 'profit' dontion.

    Again, I would also gladly chip in for your time an effort on this game.

    As a side note, and I hope NOT to offend with this, but to save copyrights etc etc, could you not approach sega to market this?

    Craig
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You may not think so, but a lawyer could argue otherwise. And Sega has likely already taken note of Sonic Fan Remix. If they were interested at all in letting this be marketed, they would have already approached Mercury and Pelikan, I would think. It's happened in other cases (not Sega related).
     
  6. dummeh

    dummeh

    Member
    13
    0
    0
    This is not completely related to Sonic or SFR - I'm just ill, up early/late and can't get back to sleep and was reading this thread.

    Copyright laws differ from country to country but they're pretty much the same - look up a watered down explanation on something like WIKI. Copyright infringement isn't like 'we're fine as long as we don't make any money or sell it'. If you're distributing it, you're infringing on the author's copyright regardless of your choice to make a profit. Look at it from a different perspective - there's a brand new game out that's $50. You take it and create a copy, story for story, character for character, level for level, and release it for free. You've infringed on the copyright of the author and regardless of whether you're making money, you've stolen the author's story and provided a way to experience it without customers having to pay. Obviously this can be a morally grey area that depends considerably on how much of the original work is ripped off or copied - whether the intent is to replace a product, or to promote and enhance it (I'd say a majority of fan work is to promote, and the ones that replace don't do it maliciously).

    With copyright there is the 'fair use' argument, but at the end of the day everyone knows this is simply to allow distribution of the protected work during the exercise of free speech and journalism - it's what lets magazines and sites review games and post pictures without having to constantly obtain permission. I won't go into the further details on trademark and IP infringements from using a franchise such as Sonic, but I will point out that owners of them sometimes legally have to enforce on infringements - they risk losing their trademarks if they're seen as not using and protecting them.

    Things like the 3D versions of the sprites and my music in the game do infringe on copyright law (half of it is note for note transcriptions). Sega have just been decent enough not to make it a legal issue. It may have gotten them a touch of negative publicity related to sites comparing it to official products, but it does give positive attention to the franchise, it's free advertising and it keeps the community interested in the brand. Regardless or not of it being an official SEGA product, SFR (and the many other fan games and hacks on here) do get people excited about Sonic.

    I should state that I'm not against the idea of fan games - I do the same from a musical approach when I create remixes and music based on existing composer's themes and motifs. Things like fangames, remixes, fiction, art, etc. really help in keeping the audience happy and interested in the product. What I am against is when money starts to get involved. I understand that people and hobbyists sweat blood and tears into making games as awesome as SFR, but that's the sacrifice you make when creating something using an established, existing IP that doesn't belong to you. Asking for money (donations or otherwise) is legally iffy, but mostly it's just morally a bit of a dick move.
     
  7. Sparks

    Sparks

    Member
    3,037
    17
    18
    Kyle and Lucy: Wonderworld
    If we're preferring to donate money to this guy than SEGA, then I think that says a bit about the work they're producing... :v:
     
  8. Aerosol

    Aerosol

    FML and FU2 Moderator
    10,619
    83
    28
    Not where I want to be.
    Sonic (?): Coming summer of 2055...?
    <!--quoteo(post=533961:date=Nov 27 2010, 11:18 PM:name=dummeh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dummeh @ Nov 27 2010, 11:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=533961">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is not completely related to Sonic or SFR - I'm just ill, up early/late and can't get back to sleep and was reading this thread.

    Copyright laws differ from country to country but they're pretty much the same - look up a watered down explanation on something like WIKI. Copyright infringement isn't like 'we're fine as long as we don't make any money or sell it'. If you're distributing it, you're infringing on the author's copyright regardless of your choice to make a profit. Look at it from a different perspective - there's a brand new game out that's $50. You take it and create a copy, story for story, character for character, level for level, and release it for free. You've infringed on the copyright of the author and regardless of whether you're making money, you've stolen the author's story and provided a way to experience it without customers having to pay. Obviously this can be a morally grey area that depends considerably on how much of the original work is ripped off or copied - whether the intent is to replace a product, or to promote and enhance it (I'd say a majority of fan work is to promote, and the ones that replace don't do it maliciously).

    With copyright there is the 'fair use' argument, but at the end of the day everyone knows this is simply to allow distribution of the protected work during the exercise of free speech and journalism - it's what lets magazines and sites review games and post pictures without having to constantly obtain permission. I won't go into the further details on trademark and IP infringements from using a franchise such as Sonic, but I will point out that owners of them sometimes legally have to enforce on infringements - they risk losing their trademarks if they're seen as not using and protecting them.

    Things like the 3D versions of the sprites and my music in the game do infringe on copyright law (half of it is note for note transcriptions). Sega have just been decent enough not to make it a legal issue. It may have gotten them a touch of negative publicity related to sites comparing it to official products, but it does give positive attention to the franchise, it's free advertising and it keeps the community interested in the brand. Regardless or not of it being an official SEGA product, SFR (and the many other fan games and hacks on here) do get people excited about Sonic.

    I should state that I'm not against the idea of fan games - I do the same from a musical approach when I create remixes and music based on existing composer's themes and motifs. Things like fangames, remixes, fiction, art, etc. really help in keeping the audience happy and interested in the product. What I am against is when money starts to get involved. I understand that people and hobbyists sweat blood and tears into making games as awesome as SFR, but that's the sacrifice you make when creating something using an established, existing IP that doesn't belong to you. Asking for money (donations or otherwise) is legally iffy, but mostly it's just morally bit of a dick move.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This.

    <!--quoteo(post=533963:date=Nov 27 2010, 11:34 PM:name=Sparks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sparks @ Nov 27 2010, 11:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=533963">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If we're preferring to donate money to this guy than SEGA, then I think that says a bit about the work they're producing... :v:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This is not the point.
     
  9. Deef

    Deef

    Member
    691
    0
    16
    @Mercury

    Oh, you haven't seen the missing ring detections? Welp, there's another niggle to add to the list. Sonic simply fails to collect 1, sometimes 2, rings as he runs through a loop. I have only ever found this issue on loops and mobius strips, though it might only be coincidence that I've never seen it on normal terrain.
     
  10. Mercury

    Mercury

    His Name Is Sonic Tech Member
    <!--quoteo(post=534900:date=Dec 2 2010, 03:06 AM:name=Deef)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Deef @ Dec 2 2010, 03:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=534900">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->@Mercury

    Oh, you haven't seen the missing ring detections? Welp, there's another niggle to add to the list. Sonic simply fails to collect 1, sometimes 2, rings as he runs through a loop. I have only ever found this issue on loops and mobius strips, though it might only be coincidence that I've never seen it on normal terrain.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Ah. This might be because Sonic is moving on the Z-axis in these situations. It could be solved by making his collision box "deeper" so that even if he moves too far behind/in front of a ring he'll still collide with it. Or, the level designer could move the rings to be closer to Sonic's actual path.

    Assuming the Z-axis is the issue.

    And please, pretty please - they're not Mobius strips (which are defined as having only one side), they're corkscrews, spirals, or helices. :argh: :v:
     
  11. Screwdriver

    Screwdriver

    Doesn't do wood. Member
    121
    0
    16
    Timey-Wimey detector.
    I played the demo a few days ago, and I must say that it's beautiful. I really don't see any problem with the scenery. It deviates from the classic scenery a bit, but it also manages to work.

    I tried running it on the highest graphical settings but got a bit of lag, so I had to test the gameplay and the looks sort of separately. The only thing I really noticed was that it's a lot harder to get the extra life in act one (provided it's still there, was having trouble not hitting the springs) after that ramp after the two loops. It's a bit hard to explain, and I'd take a picture, but I'm unable to at the minute.

    I'm not sure if acts one and three were supposed to be completely accurate to Emerald Hill or not, but they're almost there, gameplay wise. Keep up the good work!
     
  12. Deef

    Deef

    Member
    691
    0
    16
    That z-axis business sounds like the right track. That would fit perfectly.

    Okay now I want a real mobius strip in the game...
     
  13. SpeedStarTMQ

    SpeedStarTMQ

    Here for The Hedgehog. Member
    2,407
    31
    28
    UK
    I was able to get this working on my PC after some well needed upgrades, and I have to say that it's really awesome. It's how I imagined 2D Sonic would be in the future on home consoles, before playing Sonic 4. The only real difference is that there's a lot more going on with the scenery here, which isn't a bad thing- it all looks beautiful.

    Keep it up, and if there's a full game coming (I couldn't be bothered to flick through the posts), then I'm really looking forward to it, or some sort of new demo.

    All I would suggest is that the control input screen should be made simpler. All this X and Y stuff confused me (always does, I just can't retain the information on what way X and Y go), and I can't seem to get my PLAYSEGA control to work, which works with other games like Sonic Nexus etc.
     
  14. Well, I've finally made the demo in my Sempron 3400+ dinosaur. Kinda laggy, but I did manage Sonic kinda like the original Emerald Hill skill. Then, I can finally say what I am thinking of your Emerald Hill, to Mercury and Pelikan13.

    Graphics:
    The best Sonic graphics ever made. You guys have kept the slim Sonic in the game, much like a surprise. The eye color, I think, should be blue like Mercury mentioned on his blog, with a good shine. About the scenery, it's damn breathtaking, with Eggman's machine flying in the background in Act 1, but there is a slight flaw: in cave passages, there are too much leaves and vines, making it hard to locate Sonic behind it sometimes. You don't need to remove the element, just reduce the vines in a manner that Sonic and the scenery elements (like Badniks) can be visible behind it.
    The graphics are everything that Sonic the Hedgehog 4 ARE NOT. The true Next-Gen graphics, made by two Sonic fans.

    Level Design:
    This one got me surprised. You guys have managed to make Emerald Hill bigger. The first act does have a slight flaw next to the end: a Buzzbomber right at the spring's path (a diagonal one, I'm sure you know what I'm talking about). You could move the Buzzbomber a bit left, so Sonic can clear quickly the way while he jumps on the spring. The tree monkeys disappeared, although now there are some yellow variation of the Motobugs. I've noted also that in the demo there wasn't a single monitor, but it is just a detail. You can't expect a complete demo, am I right?
    Act 2 was the big surprise, an entirely new level layout, turning Emerald Hill into a 3-Act stage. The rain makes sure shot for the scenery distinction, and I can spend some time just wandering in the rain just to explore the new level.
    Act 3 is a slightly modified version of the original Act 2, with a stunning sunset on the background. I've just missed one thing there: the boss. But I know you guys are gonna put the car boss in that stage again in the final version or another demo.
    At overall, except for the Badnik at the spring in Act 1 (and the giant Motobugs, but this I can deal XD), the level design is exceptional.

    Gameplay:
    The physics plays damn well for a game of those proportions. Sonic is easy to control and the physics are well-applied. The inertia works pretty well, I can't make Sonic stand still on a slope, makes you think more smartly about your movements. The "ramp-jump" (getting impulse from a slope to gain jump height) is working, as well as the bouncing skill (holding Jump to regain height from smashing a Badnik or monitor) works. Ah, I've complained about not having spindash, but then I found my joystick is badly configured, and switched to the keyboard, where it has worked perfectly.

    By checking on this, there are two things I can say. First: I'm dying to see how will the other ten stages become in your build. Second: Man, Sonic Team should learn a lot of things from you guys. This is proven by how two skilled programmers can tackle such a prime work like Sonic Fan Remix.

    My congratulations, Mercury. You and Pelikan13 have conquered my admiration.
     
  15. Slingerland

    Slingerland

    Oldbie
    668
    2
    0
    Hechoeg Frat
    Sonic Mania
    <a href="http://www.sonicretro.org/2010/12/sonic-fan-remix-creators-interviewed-in-latest-gameinformer-issue/" target="_blank">Sonic Fan Remix in GameInformer.</a> omgomgomg

    Nice interview, guys. It must have been hard getting asked that first question. Mercury, you have massive nuts. :v:
     
  16. Nice to see this getting more attention!
     
  17. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    Is this still being worked on, anyway?
     
  18. pelikan13

    pelikan13

    Member
    33
    0
    0
    <!--quoteo(post=538563:date=Dec 15 2010, 06:23 PM:name=ICEknight)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ICEknight @ Dec 15 2010, 06:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=538563">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Is this still being worked on, anyway?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yes, still being worked on, however I did take a rather long break from it but I'm getting my enthusiasm back. Here are a couple of WIP screenshots from the next zone, if all goes well it should be ready by early February.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Dude

    Dude

    Tech Member
    3,138
    0
    16
    Southbridge, MA
    Random VR/AR trash
    nuoh my god I think I just experienced what they call ecstasy. These are amazing, and you are a very talented artist. I wish my take on that level looked that good =P
     
  20. LordOfSquad

    LordOfSquad

    bobs over baghdad Member
    4,845
    14
    18
    Winnipeg, MB
    making cool music no one gives a shit about
    Looks sick so far! The final product should look spectacular.