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Sonic Fan Remix

Discussion in 'Fangaming Discussion' started by pelikan13, Mar 13, 2010.

  1. Ell678

    Ell678

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    This little info you showed was impressive, and I look forward to seeing more of this. As for it being visually noisy...I have to agree, but I am sure the developer will take the suggestions posted, and/or come up with his own and create something to combat it. If he/she wishes to, of course.
     
  2. BlazeHedgehog

    BlazeHedgehog

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    <!--quoteo(post=424916:date=Mar 13 2010, 06:54 PM:name=corneliab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (corneliab @ Mar 13 2010, 06:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=424916">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm of the persuasion that nothing really needs to be changed in the visual department. Everything's so lush and detailed.

    Adding in a fog effect really just cheapens in the look and makes the foreground stand out far too much.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That's kind of the point. It draws the eyes away from the background and towards the foreground more. It helps visibility a great deal. There is such a thing as being TOO detailed.
     
  3. corneliab

    corneliab

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    <!--quoteo(post=425022:date=Mar 13 2010, 04:33 PM:name=BlazeHedgehog)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BlazeHedgehog @ Mar 13 2010, 04:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=425022">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=424916:date=Mar 13 2010, 06:54 PM:name=corneliab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (corneliab @ Mar 13 2010, 06:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=424916">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm of the persuasion that nothing really needs to be changed in the visual department. Everything's so lush and detailed.

    Adding in a fog effect really just cheapens in the look and makes the foreground stand out far too much.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That's kind of the point. It draws the eyes away from the background and towards the foreground more. It helps visibility a great deal. There is such a thing as being TOO detailed.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Here's the thing though- I don't think it is. That's my point.
     
  4. BlazeHedgehog

    BlazeHedgehog

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    <!--quoteo(post=425028:date=Mar 13 2010, 08:35 PM:name=corneliab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (corneliab @ Mar 13 2010, 08:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=425028">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=425022:date=Mar 13 2010, 04:33 PM:name=BlazeHedgehog)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BlazeHedgehog @ Mar 13 2010, 04:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=425022">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=424916:date=Mar 13 2010, 06:54 PM:name=corneliab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (corneliab @ Mar 13 2010, 06:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=424916">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm of the persuasion that nothing really needs to be changed in the visual department. Everything's so lush and detailed.

    Adding in a fog effect really just cheapens in the look and makes the foreground stand out far too much.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That's kind of the point. It draws the eyes away from the background and towards the foreground more. It helps visibility a great deal. There is such a thing as being TOO detailed.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Here's the thing though- I don't think it is. That's my point.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This is my point:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    A number of the most acclaimed 2.5D games to be released in the last two or three years use the same effect (with varying degrees of intensity) to make the foreground stand out from the background. Even the actual Sonic 4 uses it, a little bit.

    [​IMG]

    Distant background objects have noticeably dulled colors that are slightly tinted blue.

    :eng101:
     
  5. Mercury

    Mercury

    His Name Is Sonic Tech Member
    <!--quoteo(post=425046:date=Mar 14 2010, 12:48 AM:name=BlazeHedgehog)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BlazeHedgehog @ Mar 14 2010, 12:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=425046">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A number of the most acclaimed 2.5D games to be released in the last two or three years use the same effect (with varying degrees of intensity) to make the foreground stand out from the background. Even the actual Sonic 4 uses it, a little bit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    And they suffer for it. Classic games used to have beautiful, detailed backgrounds, but these days there's so much blur that I don't see as much effort going into them. The blurry/faded backgrounds were the biggest disappointment about the Wii-make of Klonoa (compare it to Klonoa 2 on the PS2 - there's no contest).

    And Sonic 4's idiot filters for the midground look like crap.

    This game, however, has eye-catching backgrounds, and that's no bad thing. Judging from the video, nothing needs to change.

    Someone mentioned that the monitor was walked through - either monitors haven't been programmed in yet, or it's intentional: like the Springboards in Sonic 2 8-bit, Sonic may pass by them unless he specifically jumps on them. I wouldn't complain about it yet.
     
  6. pelikan13

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    <!--quoteo(post=424824:date=Mar 13 2010, 11:19 PM:name=Polygon Jim)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Polygon Jim @ Mar 13 2010, 11:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=424824">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Any chance of a closeup of the Sonic model? It looks amazing in those screenshots.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    There you go <a href="http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/4499/sonicmodel.jpg" target="_blank">http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/4499/sonicmodel.jpg</a>
     
  7. BlazeHedgehog

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    Sure, let's not trust a professional team of graphic artists from some of the most critically acclaimed 2.5D games released on next generation platforms.

    They're obviously wrong. It's not like this is their job, or anything. :v:

    But whatever. It's not worth arguing about.
     
  8. jman2050

    jman2050

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    <!--quoteo(post=425086:date=Mar 13 2010, 08:30 PM:name=BlazeHedgehog)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BlazeHedgehog @ Mar 13 2010, 08:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=425086">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sure, let's not trust a professional team of graphic artists from some of the most critically acclaimed 2.5D games released on next generation platforms.

    They're obviously wrong. It's not like this is their job, or anything. :v:

    But whatever. It's not worth arguing about.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Appeal to Authority is probably not the type of argument you want to make in this case. ESPECIALLY regarding something as intrinsically subjective as art.
     
  9. nineko

    nineko

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    <a href="http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?s=&showtopic=13045&view=findpost&p=257958" target="_blank">Re: the fog</a>. :v:
     
  10. Polygon Jim

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    <!--quoteo(post=425085:date=Mar 13 2010, 08:29 PM:name=pelikan13)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pelikan13 @ Mar 13 2010, 08:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=425085">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=424824:date=Mar 13 2010, 11:19 PM:name=Polygon Jim)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Polygon Jim @ Mar 13 2010, 11:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=424824">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Any chance of a closeup of the Sonic model? It looks amazing in those screenshots.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    There you go <a href="http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/4499/sonicmodel.jpg" target="_blank">http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/4499/sonicmodel.jpg</a>
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Thanks, that looks great. What's the polycount on that. I'm guessing around 9,000?
     
  11. pelikan13

    pelikan13

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    <!--quoteo(post=425095:date=Mar 14 2010, 03:39 AM:name=Polygon Jim)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Polygon Jim @ Mar 14 2010, 03:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=425095">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=425085:date=Mar 13 2010, 08:29 PM:name=pelikan13)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pelikan13 @ Mar 13 2010, 08:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=425085">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=424824:date=Mar 13 2010, 11:19 PM:name=Polygon Jim)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Polygon Jim @ Mar 13 2010, 11:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=424824">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Any chance of a closeup of the Sonic model? It looks amazing in those screenshots.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    There you go <a href="http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/4499/sonicmodel.jpg" target="_blank">http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/4499/sonicmodel.jpg</a>
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Thanks, that looks great. What's the polycount on that. I'm guessing around 9,000?
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Good guess! its 7800 triangles.. And to everyone asking for a background with depth of field or a fog effect, I have experimented with it and ended up with this look. I feel it's not distracting when you are moving although everything could change, I'm still adding things in and I can polish up later so keep the critique coming.
     
  12. Andrew75

    Andrew75

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    Don't let them change your art style, even if it is dark,,, so what,
    You are the artiest after all. and this is your work. not theres. And I feel its fine. No problems!
    Take your time and go for the result that you want. Not what everyone else wants.

    I have people constantly Im'ing me about Xeniczone and Myeslf's fan game, offering up all these suggestions on what we should do next, add a world map, add another character, make the ramp this way,,
    it gets old fast... especially when you already know what you want to do.

    and!
    Hey!
    Good Luck !
     
  13. Granville

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    I agree with Andrew75, and he would know as he's a really talented artist too. You're great really! I would change absolutely nothing in the art. As soon as I looked at the screens, I though "wow this is amazing!"

    I adore the dark and light contrast. I feel that adding any sort of fog would wash the amazing colors out. By the way, classic Sonic games didn't worry about fading all the background layers, neither do fan games like Sonic Nexus- <a href="http://www.tssznews.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/nexus3.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.tssznews.com/wp-content/uploads...8/09/nexus3.jpg</a>

    Reminds me of a cross between Sonic CD and Knuckles Chaotix, both are games which boast amazing art and use of colors and environmental effects. I'd change nothing. Just don't let anyone tell you what to do with YOUR art. No one owns your work but you and your vision is yours and yours alone. But I definitely can appreciate it. And I'd hope that I would be able to tell if a game is ugly or not. :)
     
  14. Shoemanbundy

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    Now that this is public and has got my and everyone elses hopes up, I hope we can't expect it so suddenly vanish and never be heard from again. This looks like the very first 3d Sonic fa game I actually like, honestly not a single one before this has looked this good IMO.

    I 100% agree with Andrew here, I hope you keep this YOUR project, so many others start depending way too much on others who nitpick at anything and everything. So many people keep going on about how fan projects do better than Sega, but then hold the thing up for an eternity trying to perfect stupid details no one will notice or care about. At least Sega actually gets around to releasing their shit :P

    pelikan13, please don't vanish and quit the project. It's happened way to often to anything out there. This is too good to not be completed :)
     
  15. Andrew75

    Andrew75

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    <!--quoteo(post=425126:date=Mar 13 2010, 09:22 PM:name=Shoemanbundy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shoemanbundy @ Mar 13 2010, 09:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=425126">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Now that this is public and has got my and everyone elses hopes up, I hope we can't expect it so suddenly vanish and never be heard from again. This looks like the very first 3d Sonic fa game I actually like, honestly not a single one before this has looked this good IMO.

    I 100% agree with Andrew here, I hope you keep this YOUR project, so many others start depending way too much on others who nitpick at anything and everything. So many people keep going on about how fan projects do better than Sega, but then hold the thing up for an eternity trying to perfect stupid details no one will notice or care about. At least Sega actually gets around to releasing their shit :P

    pelikan13, please don't vanish and quit the project. It's happened way to often to anything out there. This is too good to not be completed :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yeah look at what happened to project S,
    To many hands in the soup....
     
  16. Shoemanbundy

    Shoemanbundy

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    Almost glad no exact details were really released on that project. Prevented me from getting my hopes up for something that was destined to fail. It's sort of understandable though when you consider one of the main driving forces of that project was Chris Senn, and this is a guy who works professionally in the business. So it's no wonder he himself couldn't dedicate much time to a huge project like a fan game.
     
  17. Tidbit

    Tidbit

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    I am loving this. I'm just hoping that this doesn't go and become S2HD all over again.
    And oh SHINY GRASS!!
    .....*cough* I love how people complained about it on s4 but not here >_<.
     
  18. Brilliant, I love the Sonic model and the style of the level. After watching the few seconds of your video I am blown away. Good luck, I hope this project doesn't fizzle out.
     
  19. Mr. Pictures

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    <!--quoteo(post=425122:date=Mar 13 2010, 09:18 PM:name=Granville)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Granville @ Mar 13 2010, 09:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=425122">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->By the way, classic Sonic games didn't worry about fading all the background layers, neither do fan games like Sonic Nexus- <a href="http://www.tssznews.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/nexus3.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.tssznews.com/wp-content/uploads...8/09/nexus3.jpg</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This is true, but the background elements are actually simpler than the objects in the foreground such as the numerous sparkles in the water. There is also a nice contrast of larger solid colored elements next to some with a little more detail, instead of detail everywhere. Another interesting theory that is present in that screenshot is the contrast of horizontals against verticals which gives a nice illusion of depth for a game that is not meant to showcase a wide variety of rendered graphics or an unlimited color palette.

    Anyway, I never understood the idea of how lots of detail equals quality, but I'm glad that pelikan acknowledges the fact that we are trying to help him and is open to critique.
     
  20. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    <!--quoteo(post=425141:date=Mar 13 2010, 09:58 PM:name=Tidbit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tidbit @ Mar 13 2010, 09:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=425141">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And oh SHINY GRASS!!
    .....*cough* I love how people complained about it on s4 but not here >_<.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Sonic 4 is being made by a team that gets paid for it and... wait, what is this deja vu. :v: