Discussion in 'Fangaming Discussion' started by pelikan13, Mar 13, 2010.
Aww, I actually was interested in seeing Sonic Noir Remix but the download is down. :<
I must be really lucky because it's downloading for me. >_>
Damn. Anyone else able to get it?
<!--quoteo(post=521066:date=Oct 23 2010, 03:59 AM:name=Spike Connor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Spike Connor @ Oct 23 2010, 03:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=521066"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Interesting point, its basically been said its a semi-remake of Sonic 2, so I've assumed we'd see Chemical Plant as the next zone and of course the rest, but there's also an opening for them to do both a rehash of Sonic 2 and then some. If it was me, I'd rehash Sonic 2 as its going, but I would also include the lost zones that are seen in the beta versions of the original Genesis, since a couple of them are just blank data, it gives them the chance to make somewhat unique designed levels while also sticking to the Sonic 2 theme. I'd love to see Hidden Palace and Genocide City (even though I think that's just a translation error, I still like the name).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
IMHO, that's the best options the designers can take : Hidden Palace, Dust Hill and Genocide City are great concept zones, both as sought after by hardcore Sonic followers as fresh and innovative to the general audience. Plus, given the fact that in most cases, there are nothing more than some sketches and/ or a handful of graphic modules to illlustrate said zones, this gives a lot of room for the designers to reinvent and develop them to reach their full creative potential (a really humongous one, judging by the demo they just brought us).
I'd also add the mandatory "fire&ice" zones (present in every famous platformer since the 8-bit era), mainly rehashes of Marble Zone/ Hill Top Zone and Ice Cap Zone respectively. After watching Pelikan's take on Emerald Hill's waterfalls, I bet all of us are eager to see his molten lava geysers and shining ice, crystal-like platforms in action!!
And, as a final suggestion, I'd vote for taking special care in continuity: I think that, in order to maximize the enjoyment of the final product, one should arrrange the zones in a logical order (whatever it would be), and provide small cutscenes in between, much á la S3&K to keep the story flowing in a natural way. As a way to clarify my suggestions, I provide you with a (really) lenghty example of these concepts.
With no intention of sounding pretentious whatsoever, I must warn you that the following example is pretty ambitious in scope, and will very likely be useless in its entirety. Anyway, if Pelikan, Mercury or anyone involved in any kind of Sonic Project finds it useful and would like to implement any of the following ideas, just go ahead. I'd be more than happy to be of service to this wonderful community.
<ul><li>Everything starts (as always) in "Green Emerald Hill", which gets more technified as the acts progress (something we have already seen in the current beta). The boss fight would take place near the entrance of a "Chemical/Nuclear Zone" and, after defeating Robotnik for the first time, we could see a cutscene of Sonic ramming into the plant, or something like that, which would serve as a transition between the art of both zones.
</li><li>After "Chemo/Nuke Zone", Sonic would exit the area vía entering an "oleoduct" that would lead him to the new zone.This one could be a crossbreeding between Oil Ocean and Dust Hill (just a guessing, in order to add consistency and correlation between zones).
</li><li>"Dust Ocean Zone"'s boss would run away to a nearby aircraft which would inmediately take off (with Sonic in hot pursue, of course)...
</li><li>The huge aircraft, the "Flying Fortress zone" would be eventually destroyed in midair, and, again, Sonic would be forced to survive skysurfing/snowboarding his way to "White Glacier Zone" (you guessed right, the aforementioned ice stage)
</li><li>And now this is where things get interesting. I bet many of you remember the vertical layout concept showed <a href="http://www.sonicretro.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Depths_of_South_Island_by_gsilverfish.png" target="_blank">HERE</a> some weeks ago. Well, I'd suggest to apply it literally here: From the "White Glacier Zone", Sonic would descend to lower altitudes until he reaches "Pompeii Zone" (the Marble-esque fire zone) and then, why not plunge the hedgehog to even more abysmal depths, into an underground, secret and ancient place, the "Mystic Palace Zone"?
</li><li>"Mystic Palace Zone" could be a mishmash of what we already know HPZ was going to be, mixed with some bits of Mystic Cave, Aquatic Ruin or even Labyrinth zones to add some flavor...
</li><li>And, finally, after defeating Robotnik one more time, a sudden underground flood takes Sonic to the surface once again, in the outskirts of the doctor's last and deadliest bastion: Genocyde City...</li></ul>
<!--quoteo(post=521313:date=Oct 23 2010, 10:59 PM:name=Azukara)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Azukara @ Oct 23 2010, 10:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=521313"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aww, I actually was interested in seeing Sonic Noir Remix but the download is down. :<<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Try this: <a href="http://www.2shared.com/file/pIa8LcpP/SFR_BW.html" target="_blank">http://www.2shared.com/file/pIa8LcpP/SFR_BW.html</a>
I think there is a 500 download limit on this so feel free to make mirrors..
oh, and I increased the speed of the game a bit, let me know what you think..
Haha that black and white stylization is actually pretty cool. I'm really looking forward to your chem plant zone level and original designs! Keep up the great work man!
Regarding the Sonic CD project by Andrew75: your sonic model looks classic and smooth! From the render, is that the ingame model?
By the way, Pelikan, can you let us know a bit about your background? Are you a pro designer/artists or this is simply your hobby? Besides Unity can you talk a bit about your design work flow and what other software you use?
People actually don't like the music? I think it's quite nice, even if it does have a bit of a "MIDI" feel to it. I'm pretty sure I remember listening to that intro (the sonic 2 boss remix) on youtube a few times in the past too; I really like that one. A bit unfitting for where it's currently being used, though.
Oh, and of course, the game's incredible and makes me depressed about my own fangame. Looking forward to whatever you have in store for the future!
The music mostly needs panning and eq. Reducing the reverb won't necessarily make it sound better, just flatter. Reverb has the nice effect of removing a lot of the "fake" sound associated with synthesized sounds.
<a href="http://alienbobblehead.com/Kain/Music/FTP_noreverb.mp3" target="_blank">Example A No Reverb (I should say reduced reverb)</a>
<a href="http://alienbobblehead.com/Kain/Music/FTP_reverb.mp3" target="_blank">Example B with Reverb</a>
Rather I think the main issue is with the panning of the instruments. I mentioned this in an earlier post of mine about how the drums needed to be re-panned, however re-panning can also be applied to instruments to allow for a nice expanded sound. For example, here is the above loop with each note separated and panned to different channels.
<a href="http://alienbobblehead.com/Kain/Music/FTP_100.mp3" target="_blank">100% split</a>
<a href="http://alienbobblehead.com/Kain/Music/FTP_75.mp3" target="_blank">75% split</a>
<a href="http://alienbobblehead.com/Kain/Music/FTP_50.mp3" target="_blank">50% split</a>
Course you could also go with a "Full" sound which is basically done by using the 100% split from above dropping the volume of each channel in the split to about 65% (of whatever the original volume was). Then add back in the completely centered channel and drop its volume to around 30%. When you do this to get a surround style feel.
<a href="http://alienbobblehead.com/Kain/Music/FTP_full.mp3" target="_blank">Example</a>
I made these simply to show the power of panning, and how they completely change the way the song is perceived, You shouldn't knock the way his songs sound, especially if he is willing to go back and re-master them. Oh one more thing, when mastering you should always use headphones, so your brain can interprete the left and right channels without cross talk.
Black & white edition ? The next is the "Limbo" edition, only with shadows. :v:
About the music, my main complain is the lack of some "punch" in the intruments. They currently don't go well with the bright colours that compose the graphics in my opinion. Panning might be a solution to make the music more powerful, indeed.
<!--quoteo(post=521334:date=Oct 23 2010, 04:51 PM:name=MultiTrack)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MultiTrack @ Oct 23 2010, 04:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=521334"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Rather I think the main issue is with the panning of the instruments. I mentioned this in an earlier post of mine about how the drums needed to be re-panned, however re-panning can also be applied to instruments to allow for a nice expanded sound. For example, here is the above loop with each note separated and panned to different channels.
I made these simply to show the power of panning, and how they completely change the way the song is perceived, You shouldn't knock the way his songs sound, especially if he is willing to go back and re-master them. Oh one more thing, when mastering you should always use headphones, so your brain can interprete the left and right channels without cross talk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Those are some great examples. I think the 100% split is a bit too much though. I've listened to some songs like that and with headphones it's a bit too distracting, at least when the panning is that fast. Maybe it's just how the panning is synced up with the notes (maybe try grouping notes in pairs or threes and then pan the groups?), or because there's no "background" to keep me from focusing on the panned notes. I'm not sure, but it just irks me, especially at the 7 second mark where you have the notes split apart in what sounds like stronger on the right, weaker on the left. I like the other examples though since it's got a nice blend.
I love EDOOM's idea for zone progression. No idea how feasible it is but it's a great evolution of what S&K started, with a smoother transition than some hints of climate/geographic changes. And that's really about as much story as I feel any Sonic game should have.
Lastly, love the B&W edition, haha. Reminds me of Saboteur, yet almost fits with how Robotnik is ruining the landscape (metaphorically of course).
<!--quoteo(post=521321:date=Oct 23 2010, 10:27 PM:name=pelikan13)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pelikan13 @ Oct 23 2010, 10:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=521321"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->oh, and I increased the speed of the game a bit, let me know what you think..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If this is just the placebo effect and you didn't actually change anything... it's working Seems his spin is faster and his full speed leg animation seems fine now. Didn't notice any improvement in fps. I get the same performance including a hiccup here and there in 1920x1200, Fantastic.
I'm all in at this point. I don't care what you do with this game I'm sold.
I don't think the speed increase is noticeable (I would like it a little faster personally, but I always thought that sonic was a bit slow in the originals).
The black and white effect is nice, you should include it as a special feature. Kinda like how in most newer Resident Evil games (or really any capcom game) after you beat the game you can turn on "filters"
<!--id1--><object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BoOBn3lewRk&"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BoOBn3lewRk&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object><!--id2-->
Jesus Christ, Pelikan and Mercury. What is this? Suicide Fan Remix? D:
Might as well put the music from the Suicide Mouse video (since people seems to be bitching about the musics as well) and there you have it...
<!--quoteo(post=521377:date=Oct 24 2010, 12:39 PM:name=Endri)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Endri @ Oct 24 2010, 12:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=521377"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Might as well put the music from the Suicide Mouse video (since people seems to be bitching about the musics as well) and there you have it...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
YES. Please do. Distort it a bit and give Sonic a frowny face while we're at it.
I played the demo, and I have to say that although the gameplay and physics (the things that matter most) are spot-on, I'm not entirely sold on the Robotnik tyranny theme in the visuals (Eggman flags, smoke coming out of the robots, the giant mech in the background). It would fit in perfectly with a game like Rocket Knight, but to me, it doesn't seem like the atmosphere a Sonic game should have. The whole level seems like a Sonic CD Bad Future; I would stick closer to the atmosphere of the Past and Present levels.
Still, good work! I hope to see this game completed eventually.
I dig the troll version of the game. It's the perfect "fuck you" to everyone saying this game should change it's style one iota. There's a difference between "this is broken" and "I DON'T LIKE THIS".
Is it wrong that I actually kind like the "troll verison", because it's not such a sensory overload?
Like it actually makes the game easier to play, for me. I'm being serious.
The gameplay feels good, the game looks fabulous, but the sound could use some work. I play with the highest settings no problem, could not get my controller to work with it so I just used Xpadder instead.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5Z0SHDNDjg" target="_blank">You guys made me do this.</a>
I hope you're happy.
But no really, WHY IS THIS SO HILARIOUS TO ME.
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