Sonic Extreme

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by SegaLoco, Apr 29, 2011.

  1. ashthedragon

    ashthedragon

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    Sonic Paradise & Sonic Ages
    DaGuAr, from Sonic Reikai, has made some maps of the level using the panoramic shot in one of the videos and the Photomerge option in Photoshop:

    <img src="http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/3345/photomergeftw.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    <img src="http://I.imgur.com/53iIT.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
     
  2. Trunks

    Trunks

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    Man, this is pretty incredible. ProtonX, I hope you'll decide to release it, as I've got 3 Modded XBoxes I'd love to try it on.

    At the same time, I understand wanting to hold onto something that no one else in the world has. I mean, I've got a few things on my PC that if people knew about, they'd crap their pants. It's a good feeling.
     
  3. MathUser

    MathUser

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    <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=130505762733&si=eiQRvKXHsRmaqUAB%252FBkz1yn9RP4%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEDWX%3AIT" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...RK%3AMEDWX%3AIT</a>

    This auction had Sonic Extreme also. On the selection screen it is called Sonic Demo Game. It has the same title screen though.
     
  4. ashthedragon

    ashthedragon

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    I bet is the same console ProtonX has now.
     
  5. SpeedStarTMQ

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    I'm also another one of these people who's glad this game was never released in the same or similar format. It just doesn't seem right to have as a Sonic game. Riders felt weird enough. They'd have to really create a Sonic game with real tricks, skills and speed like City Escape. Sonic isn't all dull and boring, but I felt at times the series goes too far out at the other end of the spectrum. For example; Sonic Riders.

    Now, based on what I've seen, this looks like a tech demo in the same vein as Sonic Crackers, rather than something like (ironically named) Sonic Xtreme. There are probably a few reasons why this game was never released in this state;

    1) The decline in popularity of Skateboarding games, which had been all the rage with the release of Pro Skater in 1999, up until about 2003, where they declined, but still remained modestly popular.

    2) SEGA/Sonic Team working on so many other projects around the time.
    If you think that from the release of Sonic Adventure 2 Battle on the Gamecube, there were already so many other Sonic games already on the market (Sonic Advance, Sonic Mega Collection, Sonic Advance 2, Sonic Pinball Party) and the development of Sonic Heroes and Sonic Battle, and not long afterwards, Sonic Gems Collection, Shadow The Hedgehog and Sonic Rush simultaneously. As well as this, Sonic Riders released in 2006, along with the incredibly poor Sonic 2006 (which we know was partly or even mostly due to time constraints). We can see the whole Sonic train was incredibly busy, and no one really seemed to have the time or money to invest in a game such as this, which was a rushed concept which had already been done by so many other games in the market years earlier.

    3) The game was a concept used to pitch general ideas, like a boarding Sonic game, or general sports game.
    We know that Sonic Riders came out a few years (2006) after this, and what a coincidence that it was also a boarding game. Sonic games (seem to) usually take a good 2/3 years to be finalized, which definitely fits in with the timescales we have here. If I'm right, this demo was pitched in late 2003/early 2004. The game shares many textures with Sonic Heroes, some of which were even cut (the Green Hill floor from Seaside Hill beta?). The voice acting comes straight from Sonic Heroes, although they even use a few clips which have never been heard before, like the "ouch" and "ah" noises Sonic makes. The earliest this demo could have been pitched is early- mid '03, because as far as I'm aware, Sonic Heroes didn't have a full voice over for the english cast until later in development.

    It seems as though this game was also built using the base engine from Adventure 2. It would seem like a good idea considering that game already had functioning board sections. As well as this the music and some objects (fruit for chao as pick-ups), ad the look of Sonic and Shadow seem to be very similar to Adventure 2's style. Heroes also seems to be based off th Adventure 2 engine, so it seems likely this engine is an 'all purpose' one, used by the team when needed as a quick fix.

    God, it's early in the morning, I'm ranting.
     
  6. Trunks

    Trunks

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    Don't read too much into the game, most of the textures and sounds seem reused. The only original content I see in this are the possibly new models and of course the level models.

    I'm pretty sure this was a pitch built off another engine, much like the fabled "<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91qQ7R30nAw" target="_blank">Halo DS</a>".
     
  7. Mad Echidna

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    I find the studio logo found in the game interesting. That company canceled far more games than they released.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Visionscape Interactive
    Website: <a href="http://www.vision-scape.com" target="_blank">http://www.vision-scape.com</a>

    Games Developed
    2002
    SeaBlade (Xbox), X-Bladez Inline Skater (PS)
    Games Canceled
    Rocket Power: Zero Gravity Zone (GCN), Rocket Power: Zero Gravity Zone (PS2), Rocket Power: Zero Gravity Zone (Xbox), Tech Deck: Bare Knuckle Grind (Xbox)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    It seems likely to me that this studio was invited to do a pitch for a Sonic sports game, and was given some game assets to work with. I think they used their own SeaBlade engine for this demo, it would explain why the lighting is different from Sonic Heroes and why it has that grainy Playstation look to it.

    Skip ahead a minute or so to see some actual gameplay
    <!--id1--><object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zGWco92IVao&"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zGWco92IVao&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object><!--id2-->
     
  8. Tanks

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    <!--id1--><object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/I58t-EUjY-k&"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/I58t-EUjY-k&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object><!--id2-->

    Seems like Tech Deck and Sonic Extreme were essentially the same thing. I guess it was one of those fall back plan situations where neither one acted like a safety net. Though I am hesitant to call Tech Deck any further ahead in development than Sonic Extreme since they seem to be on equal footing. I would assume that Tech Deck went farther, simply because Mad was able to dig up info on it, but even then it could be that SEGA just denied them the ability to release info of Sonic Extreme's existence.
     
  9. Gamerguy

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    <!--quoteo(post=583493:date=May 1 2011, 08:33 PM:name=Tanks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tanks @ May 1 2011, 08:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=583493"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--id1--><object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/I58t-EUjY-k&"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/I58t-EUjY-k&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object><!--id2-->

    Seems like Tech Deck and Sonic Extreme were essentially the same thing. I guess it was one of those fall back plan situations where neither one acted like a safety net. Though I am hesitant to call Tech Deck any further ahead in development than Sonic Extreme since they seem to be on equal footing. I would assume that Tech Deck went farther, simply because Mad was able to dig up info on it, but even then it could be that SEGA just denied them the ability to release info of Sonic Extreme's existence.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Looks like Tech Deck went a bit further indeed...it was actually released:
    <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Tech-Deck-Knuckle-Digital-Playset/dp/B001JTUWD6" target="_blank">http://www.amazon.com/Tech-Deck-Knuckle-Di...t/dp/B001JTUWD6</a>

    In all likelihood, this developer made a skateboarding game and shopped around to find a license they could slap on top if it. Sonic was one of the licenses they pursued but couldn't get, or Sega decided they weren't happy with it at some point.
     
  10. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    <!--quoteo(post=583485:date=May 1 2011, 09:05 PM:name=Mad Echidna)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mad Echidna @ May 1 2011, 09:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=583485"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Rocket Power: Zero Gravity Zone (GCN), Rocket Power: Zero Gravity Zone (PS2), Rocket Power: Zero Gravity Zone (Xbox)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Those sound like they could be the same demo, under yet more different skins.


    "Sonic: Zero Gravity" would have sounded a lot like a certain sequel, interestingly. Are this guys not the same team that made Sonic Raiders?
     
  11. Tanks

    Tanks

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    Pretty sure Riders was an in-house job by SEGA...
     
  12. Trunks

    Trunks

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    I think it's pretty obvious that at this point the developer made an engine, plugged in three different franchises, and went to see which ones stuck.

    Still, I wanna play it!
     
  13. Mad Echidna

    Mad Echidna

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    <!--quoteo(post=583502:date=May 1 2011, 07:06 PM:name=Trunks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Trunks @ May 1 2011, 07:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=583502"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think it's pretty obvious that at this point the developer made an engine, plugged in three different franchises, and went to see which ones stuck.

    Still, I wanna play it!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    If no one else gets around to it by Friday, I'll buy the PC version from Amazon and maybe an ISO will find its way to us somehow :v:

    Iceknight: I'm pretty sure any similarities between this demo and Riders are coincidental. According to this thread, this company did do the cut scenes for Sonic Heroes, but another studio helped with Riders with SEGA handing a vast majority of it.

    <a href="http://board.sonicstadium.org/topic/4295-sonic-rivals-1-2-shadow-sonic-2006-unleashed-notw-riders-1-2-heroes-adventure-rush-and-sasasrwbk-prototype-and-concept-stuffs/" target="_blank">http://board.sonicstadium.org/topic/4295-s...concept-stuffs/</a>
     
  14. Tanks

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    <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_RenderWare_games" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_RenderWare_games</a>

    According to Wikipedia it's uses the Renderware engine. Not that that's a big deal or anything.

    Also, I'm seeing this as both an Xbox and PC release. Wikipedia gives it an '05 release for the Xbox one. I wonder if there's any way we can gauge when these builds were from.
     
  15. ProtonX

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    This was just posted in the comments on TSSZ news by "gamergirl"

    "Time to solve the mystery for everyone…. Vision Scape Interactive, Inc. dba Heavy Water provided Sega with the Sonic Heroes cinematics. At that time, the studio was also in development on a few “skateboard” type games (yes, using the same Tonk Hawk influenced controls)… the Chief Creative/President, Matt McDonald, had a “brilliant” idea and created the demo of Sonic Extreme (Sonic and friends on a Hoverboard) in hopes that Sega would move forward with the game… Apparently, they loved it so much, they created Sonic Riders internally without the VSI's involvement"

    From what I have perosnally seen with the games on the system and in doing some research of the company, this is the most correct theory I have heard.

    Either way, from looking at the files, I can confirm that VSI played a role in its development.
     
  16. Mad Echidna

    Mad Echidna

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    <!--quoteo(post=583585:date=May 1 2011, 10:06 PM:name=ProtonX)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ProtonX @ May 1 2011, 10:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=583585"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This was just posted in the comments on TSSZ news by "gamergirl"

    "Time to solve the mystery for everyone…. Vision Scape Interactive, Inc. dba Heavy Water provided Sega with the Sonic Heroes cinematics. At that time, the studio was also in development on a few “skateboard” type games (yes, using the same Tonk Hawk influenced controls)… the Chief Creative/President, Matt McDonald, had a “brilliant” idea and created the demo of Sonic Extreme (Sonic and friends on a Hoverboard) in hopes that Sega would move forward with the game… Apparently, they loved it so much, they created Sonic Riders internally without the VSI's involvement"

    From what I have perosnally seen with the games on the system and in doing some research of the company, this is the most correct theory I have heard.

    Either way, from looking at the files, I can confirm that VSI played a role in its development.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Way ahead of you bro, look up a few post. We already figured out that this is the exact same game as the Tech Deck game they released, hours ago :P
     
  17. <!--quoteo(post=583472:date=May 1 2011, 07:38 PM:name=Trunks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Trunks @ May 1 2011, 07:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=583472"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Don't read too much into the game, most of the textures and sounds seem reused. The only original content I see in this are the possibly new models and of course the level models.

    I'm pretty sure this was a pitch built off another engine, much like the fabled "<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91qQ7R30nAw" target="_blank">Halo DS</a>".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I've seen that video before, but I never noticed until now that it looks almost exactly like the DS version of GoldenEye: Rogue Agent. Perhaps built off the same engine, like you said.

    In any case, I think Sonic would have made a cooler skateboarding game than that lame Tech Deck thing.
     
  18. <!--quoteo(post=583493:date=May 1 2011, 09:33 PM:name=Tanks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tanks @ May 1 2011, 09:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=583493"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--id1--><object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/I58t-EUjY-k&"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/I58t-EUjY-k&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object><!--id2-->

    Seems like Tech Deck and Sonic Extreme were essentially the same thing. I guess it was one of those fall back plan situations where neither one acted like a safety net. Though I am hesitant to call Tech Deck any further ahead in development than Sonic Extreme since they seem to be on equal footing. I would assume that Tech Deck went farther, simply because Mad was able to dig up info on it, but even then it could be that SEGA just denied them the ability to release info of Sonic Extreme's existence.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Man this really was a buzz kill for me :( ... I had so much hope in this being an "original" Sonic skateboarding game.
    It still looks far better with rings and Sonic in it though. I never liked Tech Deck.... Stupid thumb nubs or what the hell ever...
     
  19. SpeedStarTMQ

    SpeedStarTMQ

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    Wow, so that pretty much finalizes what we know then. Looking at that Tech Deck game just shows that it was nothing more than a 'quick pitch'. The demo may have had more significance than that, likely being the inspiration for Riders in part or full, but that's essentially what it was.

    Wow, y'know, we find so many interesting things and it's amazing how this community really breaks it down like this after such a very short time.

    God, I love all of you.
     
  20. SonikkuForever

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    Gathering information on Sega World Sydney and collecting Sonic merchandise.
    I was so curious about this game that I e-mailed VisionScape (now called Heavy Water Studios), last night, and asked for some information on it. This morning, an email from the CEO of the company was in my inbox. This is what the studio has to say:

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks for the forward… yes, we created this as a pitch so we could create a full game for Sega. At the time, we had just completed the cinematics for Sonic Heroes and were also in development on a few skate board games (we took advantage of using our code and the Sega assets as a jump-point, but it was merely for providing concept and playability)… we provided the demo on our dime and pitched it to Sega. They were a bit freaked out when we pitched it and the Japanese thought it was a “finished” game. They stopped talking to our agent and a year plus later, came out with Riders.

    Don't know who got their hands on our dev kit… might be from the recycling center we brought them to recently.

    Best,
    Tammy<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    So, it was pitched as an unique game, Sega ignored it, and then used the concept for Sonic Riders. And there you have it.