I like how you didn't answer my question. What are you looking for in this discussion? I don't know what it is you want to hear, but the simple fact of the matter is that paltry complaints are seldom conducive to conversation. Personal opinion only ever evokes more personal opinion. It makes for insular discourse, and while discussions like this serve their purpose when we're first reaching a consensus, what you wind up with after the fact is exactly what we're seeing here. If there were any substance to your shitty opinions, you wouldn't have to beg for meaningful discussion! Questionable business ethics? What the fuck am I reading? The game was barely marketed at all. Do you not recall how Colors was initially totally overshadowed by Sonic 4? Sonic 4 got all the PR support with the drip feed concept art reveals and community sweepstakes, the only information we got on Colors came from offscreen expo footage and some trailers towards the game's release. If anything, Sonic Team were deliberately marginalizing the game's existence with comments like "We're just making this for the kids", they had no idea the game would be as well-received as it was. Seriously, now. Is this article really the only leg you have to stand on? Nevermind that third party news racket previews do not count as marketing, all that's mentioned there are details on the story and the game's main gimmick. Questionable business ethics indeed! And you think there's a debate to be had in this? All I'm seeing is some guy who's miffed because he's not getting the attention he was looking for because he's totally full of shit.
I'm not going to go into this debates but argument "if game doesn't have an intro cutscene, than developers were lame and lazy" is just retarded. Why don't you get it? IT WAS MADE ON PURPOSE. Mario galaxy needed intro cutscene because your goal was to fuel that giant ship by going to observatories and collecting giant stars - not something that a newer player would know right away. In Sonic Colors your goal is just to get to the end of the level and jump onto wisp capsule, THAT'S IT. And if you didn't notice intro cutscene was there, just in a form of flashback and it was delivered after two 3-minute-long levels. That's not like they made you wonder "what's going on" for half of the game. And look at this This game does pretty much the same thing Colors does. And once again IT IS INTENSIONAL. Why would you need a 10-minute-long intro cutscene if next thing you're gonna do after it is running to the end of the level?
I can sort of see what you mean, but it still feels as though this would marketed as the successor to Unleashed. The initial blueprint obviously runs off of it and I clearly remember hearing the words "best of Unleashed day" from official Sega sources numerous times. Last time I checked, the best of Unleashed day wasn't made of rectangles hovering over a pit. You could do the Unleashed-2006 comparison if Unleashed actually had some similarity to Sonic 2006 to begin with, but they really don't. I can already see everyone raging at me for this, but Colors also has Orbot, giving the impression that it's supposed to be the follow-up to the last game that had him in it. And before anyone rages, no I am not complaining about Orbot being in the game. I'm simply trying to support a claim. Again I'm going to bring up the marketing. Kirby's Epic Yarn wasn't marketed as a successor to Kirby 64, and it isn't. As for Colors's level design, it wreaks of blandness to me because of the endless series of 90-degree-angles and transitional segments dotted throughout to make me feel like I'm going fast. It just feels like the levels weren't designed for Sonic at all. Most of them don't feature any cool little gimmicks like the levels in Sonic 4 or Unleashed and you could basically just plaster any old background motif on them. It's sad because as Clutch mentioned earlier in the thread, an outer space amusement park is such a wild and fun concept for levels, but instead it just feels like they were built in Brawl or LittleBigPlanet. It doesn't help that the levels themselves are all the game has to offer and Game Land looks like it was rushed out the door before they could come up with a proper level motif for it. As far as alternate pathways and exploration goes, I don't even understand why Colors gets so much praise for this. You go from one 2D "room" to another with the occasional transitional cutscene/pointless straight line to section to pass you into the next one. The size of the rooms vary from small and insignificant (like those little windows underground) to unnecessarily big and empty (Aquarium Park underwater), and a lot of times they're just floating above a giant pit (like the majority of Planet Wisp). The only areas where I felt I was actually able to explore without feeling over- or underwhelmed by the size of the rooms and the inevitable gaping pits below me were in Starlight Carnival and some areas of Asteroid Coaster. Searching for red rings in the former was arguably the best time I had throughout the game. Unleashed in comparison wasn't very focused on exploration in the day stages, but gave you the illusion that you were covering wide stretches of land by changing the environment throughout the stage. In Adabat, you go from the boardwalk to the jungle to the ocean to the temple to the waterfall and it transitions seamlessly. The hub worlds and night levels had plenty of 3D exploration, and some of the day stages actually did a very good job on small shortcuts and diverging pathways. Some of the artwork in Colors is very exotic and beautiful, but it holds little to no merit when every stage is designed with the same boring universal level tiles. There may be rooms to "explore", but almost every level in Colors only has only two noticeable aesthetic locations: "inside" (or 'underground') and "outside". In a theme park setting, it would have been nice to able to run around the Ferris wheels or take on the water slides. The DS version lets me do both, but on the other side of the spectrum (pun not intended) it has boring graphics! :specialed: Look, it's Kingdom Valley! It means I want a Sonic game that doesn't rely on fanservice, basic 2D platforming, and old concepts to get a good reception. If DKCR could do it (and reviewers these days seem to dislike DKC perhaps as much as Sonic) then so can Sonic. http://www.youtubedoubler.com/?video1=http...amp;authorName= Same short 2D act, same platforming, less stupid rectangles. Again: http://www.youtubedoubler.com/?video1=http...amp;authorName= This video is everything wrong with Colors in a nutshell. Hour-long cutscenes when I actually want to control Sonic (during speed sections), oversimplified controls, being restricted from boosting when you're clearly supposed to, the aforementioned Mario nonsense with the blue blocks that kills the flow, big rooms with no real life to them, etcetera. It's just a flashy light show that tries to be two completely different games at once. At least the Werehog is seperate and didn't ruin the day stages. And yes, the game tries too hard to be like Mario. Not the Galaxy games specifically, but some concepts are shamelessly ripped off and don't fit at all. I would have no problem with them doing this if it didn't slow the gameplay down to the point where it's not fun anymore. The stupid P Switch is exploited to death in Planet Wisp Act 3, forcing you to cross over a gaping hole on tiny squares, the hover wisp is a blatant copy of Boo Mario (which again, serves no purpose other than to slow everything down), and the little trampoline stages make me feel like I'm playing a poor man's SMB3 with wonky physics. <3 I guess you have a point there. It just seems kind of disappointing to me that Colors was the main holiday release and seemed like it was going to be so much more. Thoughts, logic, reasoning... and a bit of netiquette would be nice. In a real social community of any sort, no opinion is "shitty". This is the mindset we need to grow out of, and that's what I'm hear for. I'm not trying to force my opinions on others, just trying to get my point across so we can better understand each other. I'm looking for arguments with data and examples to back them up. Discussion can't be had if it's just one side shouting to the other side. @This and Sparks, in the mass media industry, every decision you make is marketing. The aesthetics, the storyline, the gameplay, and any bit of information (screens, gameplay footage, trailers, etc.) that might be released is part of marketing your product. Colors may not have seen much mainstream marketing in terms of advertisements - most games do not - but the basis rides off of "the successor to Sonic Unleashed, with powerups, classic badniks, and a lighthearted storyline". It tries to market to fans of the previous game by (poorly) reintroducing some concepts and characters, and it tries to market to fans of the Genesis games with classic badniks and levels. But who is the game really for? As seen above, it doesn't play like Unleashed, and it doesn't play much like a Genesis game either. If the video above is any clear indication, it's just your basic run-of-the-mill platformer with some clips of Unleashed here and there, covered with eye candy (like the in-level cutscenes) and fanservice to ensure sales. Design-wise, I feel as though it's just not a game that was really designed for Sonic fans, but fans of other platformers who are unfamiliar with the franchise. The fanservice covers this up, and the media swallows up the new "safe" Mario/Sonic hybrid as Sega finally "gets it right". I'm glad you brought this up, though. My apologies, I missed this question. What I meant was that you don't unlock the Wisps until later on so you have to backtrack for the medals. A novice player could probably pick most of them up on his or her first run through if not for this. I was using it as an example to explain how short the game is. Filler doesn't always necessarily have to be a bad thing, either. If done properly, it makes the player feel rewarded when you unlock something new. In Unleashed's case a lot of people didn't like that it caused more gameplay in the night stages and hub worlds, but Colors on the other hand I feel could have had more of it to make the game feel less empty. For instance, I never actually feel like I'm unlocking the levels, rather than just progressing in the game like usual. The game would have felt longer if there were more restrictions such as the Wisps that you have to unlock. EDIT: Disallowing YouTube Doubler so I can't make a point? For shame.
I like how you completely ignored my post in your "quest for thoughts, logic a reasoning" Looks like it's not "reasonable" enough for you to consider. But whatever.
The short tutorial level is part of the cutscene in this video. To give you a better understanding of what I'm talking about, imagine popping in a racing game, pressing the start button, and being thrown right into the race before being able to select a car or anything. Similarly, you wouldn't press start in Street Fighter II and be immediately thrown into a fight. I skipped over this initially because it seems like a lot of people are stuck on this and I'm trying to move on, as it isn't really my main concern. EDIT: One thing I forgot to bring up was this thing: Next to some of the other dry platforming sections in the game, this has got to be the most appalling structure I've ever seen in a Sonic game. It's simply an insult to Sonic level design and is completely counter-intuitive to the player's abilities.
Sonic Colors is, in my opinion, not the BEST Sonic game ever, but definitely a step in the right direction. How you can combat that is beyond me, as there's really nothing wrong with it. Laziness is not a factor in game development, there are two main factors: time and money. If you don't have the time to do something, you don't do it, or you do it halfassedly. Same with money, but that goes back to time. Also, how you can say a game is crap because it doesn't have an opening cutscene is beyond me, seeing as the story was told well in this game. Unfortunately, we weren't treated to something as great as the short-film intro of Unleashed, but I'm pretty sure I'd take a better overall experience over a fantastic intro any day, wouldn't you?
Because when you haven't locked any other levels and the only playable character is Sonic, there is so much to choose from huh? Sonic 4 does the same thing, but that's different Ok I'll give you that one I was not a fan of that section at all. Planet Wisp is filled with wasted potential, because the idea behind the level was brilliant. Launch Base Zone meets Azure Lake. Wonderful. But yet, it didn't live up to it's potential, neither did Sweet Mountain, which seems to be Launch Base Zone built on top of a donut. Lovely music that level had though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9IAHbYmLWY Just throwing this into the fray. It certainly didn't make the game lesser, I was pleased to just jump straight in, instead of say, Burnout Paradise where you can't skip it and that bint yammers on about Paradise City. Some games don't need an intro, the story gets told throughout the game or it's not there just to get you into the action quicker.
Planet Wisp did seem to have a sick fetish for empty space (like most Rush games) and small square platforms over pits (like most DIMPs Sonic games), but I for one liked the vertical stage design as opposed to your typical horizontal stage design. That part wasn't terribly great, between the platforms being too small and precariously navigating Sonic between wobbly double jumps and homing attacks onto zip lines/Egg Pawns, but I never really threw much of a fit when I played it. I just enjoyed the change of orientation and weathered on threw all ... one or two minutes of that, glad to be having fun in a Sonic game for once. What, you don't like Sonic being able to scale heights as well as vast distances? :v: I could talk more, but I've got some other shit I need to do. Be back some other time. EDIT: And guys? The opening cinematic isn't a big fucking deal. Even PC2 admits it.
Yes, the reusing of the same rectangles was one of the things I disliked more in Colours, especially considering Unleashed. However, this is something many platformers do. Just look at World 1-1 and World 1-3 from New Super Mario Bros Wii. But don't read it wrong: I preferred Unleashed on this part, and I'm not justifing Sonic Team. But even if they reused the same blocks, if the stage ends up good, does it really matter? Not for me. Then there is one thing you are forgetting: Colours was never marketed as fan service or as a nostalgia trip. Ritz already said it, but at that time Sonic 4 had all the spotlight. Sega barely cared about Colours ("Sonic 4 is what old fans wanted! Sonic 4 is a true return to what made Sonic great! Oh, Colours? Just a new Sonic game for children. Forget about it"). Only the month before release Sega actually started to do something. Also, Colours doesn't rely on fanservice that much: a few Badniks don't count as fanservice. Even Super Sonic, while being a possible fanservice, is still the last thing you will unlock. The fanservice is not a given. There is a whole game before it (and again, Sega never marketed Sonic Colours as the return of playable Super Sonic or the first time he was playable in a 3D Sonic). Most of the game can't really be considered "fanservice" (none of the planets is based over an old Zone trope, unlike Sonic 4, and the similarities to Unleashed can't really be considered fanservice). Besides, it's hard not having even a small amount of fanservice. Super Mario reuses the same old enemies since Super Mario Bros. ^And don't forget this. And this is from one of the most recent games in the series. Actually, think about the newly announced Super Mario 3DS. What was the very first thing they showed? A tail. So what? Well, it doesn't look like a normal tail: all fans immediately though of Racoon Mario when they saw it, and even Iwata said it's important (and they will reveal more details at E3 2011). Is this not nostalgia? Is this not fanservice? This doesn't seem so different from what Sega did with Colours. However, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say we don't know the true meaning of that tail. Instead, let's move to Returns. Returns isn't completely free from fanservice or nostalgia. What about Rambi? What about these? Retro was confident in their game. This is what you said. So why remixing old tracks? Weren't they "confident" enough in making fully 100% original music? Yes, but they still went on and remixed some of the most popular tracks for the sake of Nostalgia and, yes, fanservice. And I loved it. Is it that different from what Sega did? Actually, Colours has much less fanservice than Galaxy and Returns. Bland stage design doesn't mean fanservice, just lazyness. EDIT: hit reply button for mistake. I'll finish this post in a minute. Done. You can put a nice coat of paints, but in the end most Sonic stages are like that. Unleashed had pretty graphics and nice enviroments, but it still had 90-degree-angles and transitional segments. Hell, even Sonic 2006 had them. However saying the levels weren't designed for Sonic is a different thing. What do you mean with "a stage designed for Sonic"? A level were you go fast? Corkscrews and loops? Colours isn't that wrong from that regard. True, planets lacks unique or specific gimmicks, but they still flow like Sonic stages. You made the example with that vertical stage. Right, it's a different kind of stage, not very Sonic-y at all. But it's only that stage. I don't want to use old games as an example, but Sonic 2 and Sonic Adventure had Sky Chase, Sonic 1 MS/GG had Bridge Zone and Jungle Zone. You posted a video with a Yellow Spring Stage. Yes, that stage is different, and again not very Sonic-y, but the whole game is not like this, only those 3 (or 4, can't remember now) Acts have the Yellow Spring. It's a different type of stage, just like different characters had a completely different gameplay. You can always say the Wisps are the stage specific gimmicks, since you have to unlock them one by one, but I digress. You could say Game Land motif was being in a blank retro space :v: But in all seriousness, what you just said for Colours can be said also for Unleashed, with the only difference being in those "blocks". However, while the mini-Acts are mostly made with those blocks, the other stages are still made with their geometry. The whole game isn't enterely made of blocks, only some stages are. Besides, Unleashed too was made of "rooms", but you didn't noticed them because of the shiny background. Unleashed is aestetically good, but after that? You keep talking about Nostalgia, fanservice and how Sega sold the game like this, or how reviewers or us like the game for this. Yes, Game Land is ispired by old stages, yes, Badniks and Orbot are in the game. However, I don't like the game only for these things. Actually, what you say doesn't really make sense. You can't play the nostalgia card with Colours. If Sega really wanted to sell the game only for the nostalgia they would have done like Sonic 4. Instead Sega did something unique. I'll say this right now: Sonic Colours is very different from the other 3D Sonic games, for this reason I can understand how someone can't like it. Yes, it has similarities to Unleashed, but you're still forgetting this is not Unleashed 2, it's Colours. Even if someone at Sega marketed the game as a follow up to Unleashed it was never meant to be Unleashed 2. Where's the Werehog? Where are the Hub worlds? I can't find articles where Sega says "This is Unleashed 2, buy it!", so has Sega really lied about this? Actually, reading this topic again, most people liked Colours because it's not Unleashed 2! And it's just what Colours is: Sonic Colours. Listen, I can understand your points, and maybe I'm naive in this, but is this really such a big deal? I play videogames (especially platformers) for two main reason: 1) To have fun and 2) for the challenge. Colours reuses blocks, Colours has generic power-ups, Game Land recycles stages, Colours has barely any story at all. And so? For me this isn't a problem. I had fun playing Colours, playing through the stages, playing through the game. I loved the soundtrack, I like the challenge of the S-Ranks and the Red Rings. I liked the game, the level design, what it offers. So what if it's not Sonic-y at all. Who cares so long is fun. Colours is a new take on Sonic, something different, it doesn't have to be the same thing over and over again. Many said Zelda got stale because it always the same thing. Sega instead tried something different with every 3D Sonic game. They were not well received, but the Day Stages in Unleashed were. So Sega used them as a base for Colours, but still did something different. Maybe the next game will be like it, or maybe the next game will be again something different, maybe they will make Sonic Adventure 3 or Shadow The Hedgehog 2, who knows.
If there was one thing I'll agree with PC2 with regarding the game, it's its boring level geometry. Most of the acts outside of the original 2-3 acts of each stage lacked much to do outside of traversing through remixed environments on fairly boring looking platforms. The actually platforming in the game is good and fun, but nothing spectacular. There's not a whole lot of level specific gimmicks or activities, and like PC2 said a lot of stages could work with any backdrop. It would've been cool to see some slot machines in Tropical Resort, or more grassy geometry in Planet Wisp, stuff like that. Sonic Colors is not a bad game, as a matter of fact its a pretty good game, but if Donkey Kong Country Returns is a 9/10, then Colors is more a 7/10. If they make a direct sequel to Colors (Which I REALLY hope they do instead of rebooting the franchise again :/), I'm expecting bigger production values on the stages, giving them more variety and fun factor.
I honestly loved all of the levels except Sweet Sweet Mountain, or whatever it's called. I don't know, that level just annoyed me. Everything else was really fucking cool.
I honestly can't say I really "disliked" any level, tbh whenever I play the game anymore it's usually to see how far I can get in Challenge Mode, and I never really favor any specific level.
Aquarium Planet is my favourite Zone, by far. Beautiful music and finally, a proper water level in a 3D Sonic game. Sonic Colours, IMO, is my favourite Sonic game next to 3&K. The game gets very little complaints from me.
To be fair, if something like Unleashed were made instead with the sheer scope of something like Sonic Freerunner, where it's truly a huge set of playgrounds for the raw speed-and-physics-harnessing powers of Sonic, complete with meaningful and fun scavenger hunts that don't feel like a pain in the ass to complete—and perhaps some extra in-stage objective that befits a living breathing 3D world—then I'd probably say that's a much better 3D Sonic game than Colors. By then, if such a game ever comes out, Colors will probably feel stale and end up not aging well, but it'll be remembered as a pretty good Sonic game for its time, not unlike Sonic Adventure. If anything, it was a really fun diversion from the typically awful or mediocre 3D Sonic games, using mostly simple and fun 2D design and some new-ish hit-or-miss special abilities, and that's good enough for me for now. Hell, I wouldn't mind seeing more 2D in my 3D Sonic games as long as it remains fun and gets a little more polish! Not graphically, mind you, but in terms of smoothing out all that blocky design you hate, fixing the very spotty controls in and out of 3D, and integrating a new, better moveset for Sonic to utilize in 3D. By then they'll hopefully start experimenting with something other than the boring and lazy homing attack, be it bringing back the Insta-Shield or not.
I can understand your point of view, but I'm afraid SEGA has proven to be incapable of doing that these days, so they don't have a choice but to rely on fanservice, basic 2D platforming, and old concepts if they want most of our money.
Unleashed let me do that without annihilating the flow as well. + the clock tower in Spagonia + the tree in Mazuri It's nice to know someone is paying attention. On Sega's part, the mentality behind this is so backwards I don't even know where to begin. Why should anyone be more excited for a downloadable game than one at full retail price? This just goes to show how cowardly they are. No Sonic game, especially a mainstream title, should ever be "just a new Sonic game for kids". If Sega really cared about it, they would've made the changes necessary so that they could market it to the masses confidently. Instead they decided to cash in on nostalgia with Sonic 4 so that people wouldn't rebel against their latest new concept as usual. It wasn't until months later when people started paying more attention to it when Iizuka started spouting nonsense about "the best game since the Genesis days". The fact that such a statement should expel from his lips is depressing. At first I thought it was confident, but now it sounds like anything but. It completely dismisses any high points the other 3D games, including Sonic Adventure have had. When you can't even acknowledge your own brand's last success that wasn't over a decade ago, something is wrong. I'm not excusing the blatant nostalgia bombing in Mario or the lack of original music in DKCR. In fact, I kind of wish I would stop seeing 8-bit sprites and World 1-1 reincarnated in every single Mario game as it's getting extremely tired to me. However, in Retro's defense, the music is pretty much the only thing borrowed from the original games. Everything else has been drastically overhauled in some fashion, other than the vaguely similar Jungle Japes. Retro took a lot of risks by removing the old cast, making significant alterations to the gameplay (without taking an axe to staples that were already in place), and redesigning the entire product. I sort of see what you mean. I just feel like the blocky gameplay overpowered the Sonic gameplay. They also did something I don't remember them doing before by messing around with the controls and simplifying the speed sections. Arbitrary gameplay style is nothing new, but Colors takes "Sonic" style and puts unnecessary restrictions on it to turn it into something different. I can't think of any logical reason for mapping button commands to the controls stick and hard-limiting the boost so that I can't even use it when I'm supposed to. The drift is now useless since you can't use it while boosting and there's no real reason to use it other than to look cool (in Unleashed not doing so will slow you down or in some cases kill you). The alternate gameplay here also interferes with the "Sonic" gameplay, so sometimes you can play through a level and it feels like you're switching between two different games and it can't decide which one it wants to be, almost like every level is Eggmanland or something. It isn't really just about going fast without any action. Starlight Carnival and Terminal Velocity literally have straight lines in them, but that doesn't make them designed for Sonic. I want to be able to control him at that speed, which is basically what makes it a Sonic game to me. It's about using objects that cater to Sonic's abilities. I could probably count the number of pegs, fans, low walls, and those little context-sensitive cannons from Unleashed (I remember exactly one of these in Planet Wisp) as opposed to the amount of blocks in this game. The blocks themselves don't just bring the gameplay to a complete halt, but using them as platforms, they don't even support the games physics at all. Some reviewers blame this on spotty controls, but it has more to do with the fact that Sonic's physics weren't programmed with these kinds of levels in mind, which is why I say it feels like a sloppy mix of Unleashed and Mario. Out of all of Sonic's moves, most of the time you're just restricted to jumping and double-jumping, a move which they shouldn't have even needed to consider, and even then it's still a pain to land on the platforms. And just to show you how much this game loves blocks, I've compiled a list of all the blocks in the game - something the manual doesn't even cover, despite how frequently they are used in the game. Sorry, my post goofed after editing it.
Sonic colors is a really good game, but it seriously lacks any "wow" moments IMO. A few months ago, I was playing a Spagonia section in Unleashed (Act 2 I think) where I got on a red pully thing to hop on a small platform, and the camera switches to a top view afterwards (so I could see the clouds and washed out buildings 400 feet above me). I literally said out loud "Woah, that's cool". However, I felt indifferent when I was playing the skydiving sections of Colors (Aquarium Park Act 1's intro should have wowed me but it didn't). I'm not sure why; the game has great graphics and some depth perception (like in Sweet Mountain). They were probably too surreal to impress me. Since Spagonia is pretty much based on a real city, it sorta felt more believable to me. I think the "wow factor" came from the buildings and clouds (if it was nothing but empty space or random tubes I'd be less impressed than I was). IMO, I think Sonic Team should look into incorporating believable elements in real life skydiving if their later game environments are going to be as surreal as colors'. What makes skydiving so intense in the first go? Seeing a vast array of childhood buildings in a different way? Knowing on the back of one's mind that they will die if something goes wrong? Just rambling by now.. I hope they can make something post-Colors that wows me more than that random part in Spagonia.
Really? Terribly sorry to hear of your stunted endocrine system. EDIT: Seeing the Skyscraper Scamper video up there, I can sort of see what you mean now. You weren't expecting that though, were you? This is still a Wii game. Good on Sonic Team for at least attempting to instill interest in their game beyond visual thrills, because that's all Unleashed really has going for it!
