Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by RGamer2009, Aug 29, 2010.
What game are you watching?
This is not entirely true. When you spindash immediately before a rail it proves that momentum is taken into consideration. And yes, leaning is faster but when you combine leaning with balancing you can go even faster again like john freeman. 3 control layers in the rails plus the fact that skipping them sometimes is faster certainly makes them well integrated. Compare these to the Unleashed rails where all you do is pick a rail and sometimes boost, which serve only as filler and you'll begin to see why sa2's rails were executed pretty well.
Per-etty much this. Oh, don't get me wrong, there's some definite potential for epic win in Sonic 4, and if they do the right things during the delay and while developing further episodes, it could actually turn out to be the better game. But Colors looked good from the first screenshot onward and only looks better and better each time new info comes out, never mind that the info comes at a much more satisfying pace. Sonic 4's been a hype-train on a roller coaster... a rickety, old-school roller coaster made of wood, the kind built on ups and downs instead of loops and swerves...
Except 06 featured crap physics and controls compared to SA2, a worse art style (bar Soap shoes) and no sidescrolling elements. I too would want some of what Solid SOAP wants, hold the sidescrolling sections and somersault and add some ability to put moves on seperate buttons.
And basically this. It actually goes with the "momentum" mindset of gameplay rather well unlike rails nowadays which are just made to make the level seem bigger.
Except Sonic '06 had NO physics applied to any character at all, very little if any multiple paths in most levels, shitty rail grinding, no side scrolling, etc.
I'm with Dude on this. Colours looks linear as fuck. I've no desire to delve back into the "what's the difference between a route and a path" sophistry that cropped up a few pages ago, but from what I've seen Colours is scarcely more alternate-route-containing than 06. People seem to think that the fact there's two directions to use - "hold forward to win" in the 3D sections vs. "hold right to win" in the 2D sections - that this somehow qualifies as z0mg MegaDrive style platforming. Meanwhile I see grindrails over bottomless pits, Rush-style trick systems, and goddam Egg Pawns.
The only "alternate routes" are identical coridoors above and below each other, but oh wow there's two of them that makes it interesting, or a drill gimmick through the floor that gets you the startling other path of... a couple of rings buried underground. GREAT.
EDIT: lol this is the main Colours thread??
That is more or less my point. Though from my perspective SA1 started the trend. It planted the seeds. While it kept these things scarce in comparison to future titles, it pointed the series in the direction it has been traveling now for a decade. The wrong direction. SA2 made things worse, and the ball continued to travel down hill from there. The Colors/Unleashed Day formula, in my opinion, is just making the best of this horrible route, and as a result can only make a decent 3D Sonic game at best (an excellent 3D Sonic game would require a total reboot), though I'd love to be proven wrong. Colors is the perfect opportunity for this to happen.
Aught Six actually has a bunch of options in most levels, just they're hard to find because that game's the camera isn't so well behaved, and the level design also happens to punish exploration leaving the player unwilling to leave the obvious path in much the same way as a grasshopper that has been put in a jar will stop trying to escape after enough tries, even if the jar is then opened.
But these two games have very similar player handling, SA 2's just handles leaving the ground slightly better and the characters lose speed due to sharp turns. They otherwise have the same strange gravity and touchy controls. Sonic Adventure 2 just has substantially more linear levels with simpler terrain geometry.
Oh, but one difference I didn't account for: SA 2 doesn't spam as many pointless enemies at you.
What the hell happened to that post?
So I'm not the only one that can see he somehow quoted a signature, and the whole post is just a quote?
Thing is though, SA2 has physics that actually react to downhill and uphill slopes, and proper gravity as well, and most importantly it also had physics correlated to rolling and using the Spindash. It mostly felt like a modified set of controls from SA1 with a different way of handling turning. I do on one hand like SA1's way of handling movement better, but my point is that if you can really say that abrupt jerky, momentum-less movements and having no physics affecting the character (besides falling off things) are things that SA2 and 06 both share then I really don't see it; especially in the rolling/Spindash area.
And 06's level design was mostly just a mess that "kept you from exploring" because they didn't bother to finish it up enough both engine-wise and object-placement-wise so that Sonic could do these things. So in return the big open areas and possible exploration sections of 06 were either blocked off, made unfair to traverse thanks to crappy physics or coders too lazy to give certain areas collision, or were inaccessible thanks to the biggest spam of dashpads and autosprings the Sonic series has ever encountered. Remove those things and you get fantastic level design. I wish someone would put these levels in a good engine already so they can finally be treated correctly.
Will agree with the enemy overload though. I have NO idea why Sega thought that was a good idea.
I was wondering that the whole time I was responding. :v:
I read the article, but I knew there would be an issue like this back around E3.
Around that time I did a poll asking my readers which would be the better Sonic game. Before all the Colors video and shots streamed out from E3, Sonic 4 had a 54/46 lead—an 8 percentage point difference. After E3, Colors won the vote by 2 PPs, 51/49. I had never seen a 10 point swing like that in such a short period.
I blame the leaks, sort of. Not the actual event, but they've given us a concrete slate to judge all these changes, and aside from LLZ 2's overhaul (and the one I expect from CSZ 2), they haven't been huge changes in the grand scheme of things IMO. It's proof positive of a PR blunder.
We haven't had that with Colors, at least not yet. I'm personally still weary of elements meant to cater to kids (things like the deeper story, etc), and we very well may not know of those until launch time. I'm not convinced Iizuka and Co. can get out of Colors cleanly because if his blunt nature in interviews have demonstrated anything, it's that they are taking great pains to hone in on two different demos with two different games. I have never seen that be made any more crystal clear by Sega brass than it is now.
And if Colors suceeds while Sonic 4 doesn't, it's a problem. I guarantee if that happens, Sega will mandate the 3D direction going forward. That's not good because as we're all aware, Sega has missed more times than hit in the 3D era. Colors may be an exception, but having a diamond in the rough only a few years at a time will make us an unruly bunch.
Sonic Adventure 2's physics worked. From rails, to running and rolling, to moving at low speed or top speed, Sonic Adventure 2's physics felt right. And less broken (in a good way, compare the spin dash) than Sonic Adventure 1
Sonic 0Shit's physics are garbage because it's a rushed game that was made in a year on new systems and a new engine. It's completely unfair that movement feels like a chore.
Sonic Colors is stealing Sonic 4's thunder because Sonic Colors is looking like an improvement from the game it follows (Sonic Unleashed) while Sonic 4 is looking like a failure from the game it wants to follow (Sonic 3 & Knuckles).
That said, I am definitely waaay more hyped for Sonic Colors than I am for Sonic 4.
something I read from that article
yeah, because a dpad and 3 buttons that did the same thing is just soooooo difficult to figure out. rofl.
Last I checked, this thread was not the Colours topic but about this guy's editorial. Please keep it that way.
Well SEGA, I would be excited for Sonic 4 if it didn't look so fucking terrible. Just saying. You give me a game using Dimp's engine and you even almost released the game in an incredibly unfinished state months ago, had we not seen the leaks ahead of time showing the game's true nature. It doesn't even use the same physics as the classic games (fans have outprogrammed you making games that play more like the original games than Sonic 4 does for fucks sake, there is honestly no bullshitting you can do to get yourself out of that fact), and it hardly has any new ideas whatsoever. Bottom line though, it's not Sonic the Hedgehog 4 to me, and it honestly does not deserve to be called it.
Colors looks grand because it's taking the worst thing about the best 3D Sonic to date out of the picture and making an entire game around the GOOD parts.
Except they didn't, Sonic 4 should have been geared toward the older fans instead of everyone. At least, that's the impression I get from it. Like I said numerous times already, the biggest downfall for this game was calling it Sonic 4 and not living up to the expectations of fans who wanted a true follow up to Sonic 3 & Knuckles. They honestly couldn't handle the task, so it's beyond me why they even bothered to try.
The only thing I dislike about Colors is the Nintendo exclusivity. This is probably the first title that makes me want to cough up the dough for a Wii, actually. How much do they go for these days? >_>
I wrote about this exact same topic as well.
I totally agree with this guy's article, too. I can't stand how they're trying to separate the two games, when one obviously has more time, money and care put into it.
Or you know, they could make S4 a decent game. That'd probably work just a little better.
Stay within the bounds of possibility here, Blue.
It was in response to a now trash'd post actually. It's just that S4 is teeming with not only engine problems but design ones as well. Colours is building on what exists while S4 is changing/poorly imitating somethine that exists.
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