Sonic Classic Heroes

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by flamewing, Nov 2, 2010.

  1. Clownacy

    Clownacy

    Tech Member
    837
    79
    28
    I remember an old update detailing how if the player somehow got a Lightning Shield underwater, it would be swapped for a Bubble Shield instead, so that case is already covered.
     
  2. PKstarship

    PKstarship

    Super-Sonic Racer
    So, I've been watching speedruns of various games for a few day now, and it inspired me to play through Sonic Classic Heroes as Super Sonic solo really fast. This led me to have a suggestion: Can there be an extra screen added after the credits that adds up the time for every stage you beat, when you beat the game in its entirety? I loved that feature in Big's Fishing Derby, so I would love to see it in this game so I can work on being the fastest I can. It would also be cool if you could save your best time and high score on your save file too.

    Also a small thing, can there be an act results screen added suring the Wing Fortress cutscene, shortly after Sonic grabs onto the ship? I mean, not much happens for a solid ten-fifteen seconds, enough time to show an act results screen.

    Just a couple of thoughts I had yesterday, nothing big :)/>
     
  3. flamewing

    flamewing

    Emerald Hunter Tech Member
    1,153
    37
    28
    France
    Sonic Classic Heroes; Sonic 2 Special Stage Editor; Sonic 3&K Heroes (on hold)
    I recommend that you avoid any glitches that get you inside terrain or give you slope glitch; they will all be gone in the next version.

    And by the way, if you can make note of your per-act times, I could use those values to determine starting ring counts for Teams Super and Hyper (these will die when ring count reaches zero). It would be good if everyone could do that, so I would have a good spread.

    I can do that, yes; been thinking about that myself.

    Like S3&K, I don't save anything related to high score; and unless you mean save overall best score and best time (as in, best of all games played instead of per save), I would have to discard current saves because there isn't enough space set aside for it.

    I have already done that on the development version; the timer always stops when you beat a boss (instead of when you hit the capsule), like in S3&K; there are score tallies for Scrap Brain 3, Sky Chase and Wing Fortress (and I am thinking of adding one for Death Egg); and Sky Chase gives you points based on the longest chain of badniks you destroyed instead of based on time.
     
  4. PKstarship

    PKstarship

    Super-Sonic Racer
    I might actually try to do this. As for the skips, I don't use any inside-terrain or slope glitches, however, I do use the skips where you go over the top of the level. For exapmle, in Chemical Plant Act 2 as Super Sonic, charging a max-speed Peel-out at the very start then hitting the curve makes you shoot high above the level, and you can then pass over a wall and save over half a minute. Star Light Zone and Oil Ocean Zone are really fast when you go over the tops of the level.

    Also, if you are going to use my level completion data to determine ring counts, I would like to ask a few questions to make sure I do a good job of this.
    -Should I be using full Super Team Sonic, or just Super Sonic alone?
    -Should I be going through the levels entirely instead of just jumping over huge chunks like I mentioned earlier?
    -Should I be going through the levels as fast as I possibly can, or take my time a bit?

    I will probably do a run in the next week or so (I'm not exactly sure which day), jot down level completion times and end-of-level ring count, and put the data here or send it to you in a .TXT file.
     
  5. flamewing

    flamewing

    Emerald Hunter Tech Member
    1,153
    37
    28
    France
    Sonic Classic Heroes; Sonic 2 Special Stage Editor; Sonic 3&K Heroes (on hold)
    These will generally remain; I am thinking of editing some of those into alternate routes which not all characters can reach.

    Ideally, lots of people would do it so I would have a range of strategies and play styles; because Super Sonic is faster than the others, his times may end up being too low for the others (but then again, they can do some skips Super Sonic can't). So I will need some wiggle room either way. And because of this wiggle room, you can go as fast as possible, using whichever characters you think are fastest and I will try to come up with some slower times for comparison.
     
  6. rata

    rata

    Member
    594
    20
    18
    Argentina
    Trying to be useful somehow.
    This may sound stupid or pointless, but I'm not so sure about skipping half of act by flying high. I mean, yes, you can make it, but that's not how the game is meant to play. I mean, that's why we have complete layouts and not just a ramp at the beggining. I don't think it should be considered at the moment of calculating starting rings.
     
  7. flamewing

    flamewing

    Emerald Hunter Tech Member
    1,153
    37
    28
    France
    Sonic Classic Heroes; Sonic 2 Special Stage Editor; Sonic 3&K Heroes (on hold)
    Hm, good point, and I completely agree. So yeah, starting rings should be based on just good play on "intended" routes.
     
  8. PKstarship

    PKstarship

    Super-Sonic Racer
    Okay, I didn't have anything to do this afternoon, so I decided to do a Super Sonic Solo run of Sonic Classic Heroes, writing down the times and ring counts as I played. Here is all the times I got in the end. I went through the levels as fast as I could, and properly, without leaping over the stages or anything. I didn't even take the Scrap Brain 3 shortcut in this run. Hopefully this info will help :)/>
     
  9. Perhaps take the alternate routes from the Mobile ports for this?
     
  10. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

    Member
    1,661
    17
    18
    Project Sonic 8x16
    Hell fucking yes
     
  11. PKstarship

    PKstarship

    Super-Sonic Racer
    Actually, when you mention Sonic 2 Mobile, I have an idea. I know it has kinda been done before, but would you consider adding Hidden Palace Zone to Sonic Classic Heroes, possibly as a special area that can only be accessed through Mystic Cave Zone 2 and not even Level Select?

    I know both Kirby in Sonic 2 and Robotnik's Revenge 2 both have Hidden Palace Zone in them, but those were both actually based on the "Proto Palace Zone" hidden in Sonic 2 Mobile. It would be cool to port the normal Hidden Palace instead. Just yet another dumb idea I had, nothing big :)
     
  12. flamewing

    flamewing

    Emerald Hunter Tech Member
    1,153
    37
    28
    France
    Sonic Classic Heroes; Sonic 2 Special Stage Editor; Sonic 3&K Heroes (on hold)
    It has been suggested before, yes, and I have been thinking of doing that (or maybe make my own routes).

    The major problem I have with the Sonic 2 Mobile Hidden Palace is the boss: I don't like it at all. When you play as Tails or Super Sonic you can murder him easily, as Sonic+Tails or Knuckles+Tails you can make Tails do the work, and when you are Sonic solo or Knuckles solo, you will waste a lot of time.

    Plus, I will probably have to recreate all the objects and graphics, since I haven't been carrying them around in SCH.
     
  13. MainMemory

    MainMemory

    Kate the Wolf Tech Member
    4,548
    142
    43
    SonLVL
    They're based on the level in the Sonic 2 prototypes, which "Proto Palace Zone" is a direct copy of. The Hidden Palace Zone in the mobile version is essentially a fan-made level.
     
  14. Josh

    Josh

    Oldbie
    1,885
    656
    93
    USA
    While I'm not the biggest fan of the HPZ boss either, it actually is possible for Sonic (not sure on Knuckles) to beat him on the first cycle. You can hit him a time or two when he first appears, then repeatedly thrash him as soon as the geyser connects.
     
  15. LordOfSquad

    LordOfSquad

    bobs over baghdad Member
    4,918
    45
    28
    Winnipeg, MB
    making cool music no one gives a shit about
    I think it was mentioned that the "official" HPZ isn't doable on Genesis hardware as-is anyway. Too many unique tiles or something?
     
  16. flamewing

    flamewing

    Emerald Hunter Tech Member
    1,153
    37
    28
    France
    Sonic Classic Heroes; Sonic 2 Special Stage Editor; Sonic 3&K Heroes (on hold)
    Well, I do have some ideas for chunk/block/tile reloading which could be used for that.
     
  17. Brainulator

    Brainulator

    Regular garden-variety member Member
    For what it's worth, you could alter the layout from another hack (such as MainMemory's Knuckles' Emerald Hunt) and not include a boss... but that would make the level kind of lame.

    Of course, vertical looping and water would just flood the stage as the game proposes.
     
  18. nineko

    nineko

    I am the Holy Cat Tech Member
    5,934
    121
    43
    italy
    There's nothing wrong with vertical looping and water at the same time, even LZ3 in Sonic 1 does that and unless you do weird things with the debug mode it's quite hard to screw it up.

    Also: hey Flamewing I sent you two private messages in the past days :U
     
  19. MainMemory

    MainMemory

    Kate the Wolf Tech Member
    4,548
    142
    43
    SonLVL
    Brainulator, you mention KEH's layout in your post (which, for the record, he'd have to ask MarkeyJester to use), which already has both water and a vertical wrapping section. All you have to do is when you enter the wrapping section, change the camera's Y boundaries to enable wrapping and turn off the water, then when you leave, restore the boundaries to normal and enable water.
     
  20. Brainulator

    Brainulator

    Regular garden-variety member Member
    Well, then. I did remember Marble Zone after posting that. :-P

    It's weird: I actually was thinking of suggesting Hidden Palace Zone inb4 Taxman and Stealth port Wood Zone and to be honest, lacking a boss wouldn't be too out-of-place in comparison to Knuckles's Carnival Night Zone and Lava Reef Zone in S3K.