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Sonic Classic Heroes

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by flamewing, Nov 2, 2010.

  1. flamewing

    flamewing

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    Sonic Classic Heroes; Sonic 2 Special Stage Editor; Sonic 3&K Heroes (on hold)
    How do you know it wasn't deliberate? :v:

    Anyway, now that I am looking, the main issue is going to be palettes, not VRAM -- 3 of the emeralds share Sonic's palette, which I can't have (even in Team Sonic that won't work), and they go rotating (so that even h-int won't help).

    Hm. Switching to the S3&K emerald set allows me to still keep two emeralds using GHZ's line 3; I can then shunt the blue emerald to line 4 using the sky/could colors; that leaves the other 4 emeralds, which require only 13 colors + transparency -- which will neatly fit into palette line 2. Then I change back to the original line 2 for the flowers during the flash. If I disable the HUD for the level, I can make it work. Now to port the level layout and code, the S3&K emeralds and get it working.
     
  2. Cinossu

    Cinossu

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    What about using the "water palette" for them? considering they only start spinning properly and can be seen individually when they get into the air, this could be a way around it. I know I've done this to get around Emerald colour palette limitations for other things.
     
  3. flamewing

    flamewing

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    It is actually the other way around: it is when they start spinning after being released that they can be best distinguished; once they get higher up, they spin so fast that you can only discern the emerald colors if you pause the game or the emulator. But swapping the palette when the emeralds disappear in the flash is enough for all my needs, and the S3&K emeralds are similar enough that it is hard to notice the difference with the emeralds moving around so aggressively.

    For a cool illusion, watch the rotation in slow motion: towards the ending, your brain will insist that the emeralds are rotating counterclockwise, but if you follow any one emerald, it is clear they are not.
     
  4. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    You can always make half of the emeralds blink at an odd frame and half at an even frame, so if you changr their palette each frame you'll only have to color 3 of them (4 if you add the seventh).
     
  5. flamewing

    flamewing

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    There is something I have been working on with E-122-Psi (by which I mean I do all the code and he does all the art) which hit a small snag in terms of palette; thus, I have a quick poll (and the accompanying announcement). Specifically, he is drawing Amy, Cream and Tikal for my version of Team Rose (Big is out of the question -- he is just too big; he has to be paired with a very small character to work -- around Charmy's size). But as I said, palettes are restricted, and lots of details need to be lost. So here is the poll:
    The original images are these:
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    They don't use MD colors, and are way over budget. The palette-corrected versions, shunting the yellows to the ring line and reducing the number of colors to an acceptable value, are these:
    A [​IMG] B [​IMG] C [​IMG] D [​IMG]
    The ones with Classic Amy lose the most because Amy can't have her green shirt (but using some greener grays, as in the second image, mitigates it slightly). Using modern Amy is likely to get people complaining (people complained about her head as the Tornado's pilot), but she loses less detail.

    So, which one? A, B, C or D?

    And if you are wondering: it might be possible to have Cheese as well; I already have a version of him that works for all S1 levels, and I just need to take care of the S2 levels now:
    [​IMG]
    (based on this sheet by Deebs and others). I can envision him working like Super Tails' flickies do, and he can share VRAM with Cream as she is small.
     
  6. ashthedragon

    ashthedragon

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    B or D. I Don't mind modern amy, but there are people who do,so I pick them both.I sightly like D more than B.
     
  7. Cinossu

    Cinossu

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    Considering you have Tikal and Cream in there, I'd say D.
     
  8. FeliciaVal

    FeliciaVal

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    I say D as well, imo is just what fits best
     
  9. Xeric

    Xeric

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    Yeah, I'd prefer D. It'd just be odd mixing 2 modern characetrs with a classic like that.
     
  10. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    I'm torn between B and D.

    While Amy on D looks better with Cream and Tikal, and doesn't clash as much,
    I feel like Classic Amy would look better in the classic game.

    At the end of the day though, If you put a gun to my head, I'll go ahead and say D. Why not?
     
  11. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    Quite honestly, I'd just add classic Amy to the roster and allow her to replace Sonic, Tails or Knuckles...

    Playing as Cream could be kind of cool if Cheese can be implemented, but I can't see anything interesting about having Tikal as a playable character.
     
  12. Aquaslash

    Aquaslash

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    So what, I'm the only one that actually likes C? I would honestly prefer to avoid Modern Amy like the plague since this is a classic game, but it looks like the Ds have it.
     
  13. Kilometers Prower

    Kilometers Prower

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    D looks like the most well-made of the lot, and is my choice as well. Classic Amy would be nice, but I'm not too crazy about how she looks there (I think I read in another topic somewhere that E-122 Psi is working on fixing it, though). Maybe if he gave Classic Amy Modern Amy's outfit? That'd solve the palette issue and it might work better with matching the 2 modern characters.
     
  14. Fred

    Fred

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    That's because the colors were terrible and the sprite was off-model. D all the way.

    By the way, I'm surprised you haven't bugged me after I fell over the edge of the world about a month ago. Sometimes I can use the reminder that I have stuff I should be doing!
     
  15. dsrb

    dsrb

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    I still don't like E122's latest Amy sprite-set (no offence; I mean, the old one was really getting somewhere!), so on this one occasion, I'd have to say D (bolstered by the presence of other modern characters) - BUT! I'd like to put in my insignificant vote for reconsideration of the old set (partly because classic Amy would fit better with Team Sonic; perhaps modern could be included too for Team Womans or whatever it's called).
     
  16. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    Just wondering, would it be technically possible to make a Classic Amy sprite that's compatible with Team Sonic's palette?
     
  17. DNLeal

    DNLeal

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    Reading the archives...
    I'd say that classic Amy would be neat due to being a classic game and everything, but yes, adding Tikal and Cream to the bunch makes it look a little bit off. Either B or D would be fine. But I have to admit, I do prefer the Tikal C out of all of them.
     
  18. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    Would it be too late to suggest Rouge instead of Tikal? She at least has a known move set, which is equivalent to Knuckles.
     
  19. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    Classic Amy's green causes problems, since there aren't enough color blocks on one pallette line. The best option are either change the shirt or use modern Amy for a more limited color scheme.

    As for her sprite, it's undecided how it will look yet, I'm thinking of just going screw it and use that final one on the S2Amy thread here that people seemed to prefer most. Otherwise it might just be the Sonic 2 sheet.

    [​IMG]

    Rouge also doubles as a flyer in Heroes though. Admitedly we're still not positive on who would be the most fitting Team Rose member, though at this point Tikal likely has the best color scheme to work with the other two. Abiding by her SA2B appearance, she has Knuckles' moveset as well.
     
  20. FeliciaVal

    FeliciaVal

    Member
    I saw this ages ago on a another topic and I thought it would be interesting to share it again:

    [​IMG]