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Sonic Classic Heroes

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by flamewing, Nov 2, 2010.

  1. dsrb

    dsrb

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    I'm afraid you are!

    I wish I had the technical knowledge to make a guess at this. But even without that, I'm impressed by the palette acrobatics people have managed to pull off recently: flamewing here, ColinC10 in Sonic 1 and 2, Tiddles for Sonic 3 Complete.
     
  2. flamewing

    flamewing

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    Neo already got it -- I am using H-Int. I was bragging about he fact that I revert the palette as soon as possible, so that the HUD icons are minimally affected most of the time (this needs some precise timing to pull off). Since Neo's post I have tightened the recolored region so that Knuckles' HUD icon is affected less often -- it is so much better now that the HUD icon is unaffected by the palette swap when the Tornado in the same position as in the screenshot. Similarly, the hands and shoes of the characters are also unaffected now.
     
  3. Mike Arcade

    Mike Arcade

    Free Scriber of Mobius Member
    1, 4, or 5 look awesome.
     
  4. Effexor

    Effexor

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    Any chance of getting rid of all those extra zeros for the score? I know it's supposed to be like Sonic Heroes' score counter, but I hate having zeroes before the first digit that has an actual value in any context. + - Except for binary, but that's different.[/INSPOILER]  
     
  5. Felik

    Felik

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    + - Classic games had one extra zero after the last digit of the score. Least score you can get is 10 as you may remember. So that doesn't really matter.  
     
  6. flamewing

    flamewing

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    Something I am working on for Sky Chase:
    [​IMG]
    Just because it always bothered me. The birds can easily fly away (and they do so in the last versions I released), but the turtles die. Another thing I thought of is having Cream flying in with a net and collecting turtles.

    Anyone want to try their hand in the turtle's parachute? I am having a hard time getting it to look good.
     
  7. FeliciaVal

    FeliciaVal

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    I think the parachute looks fine, only that maybe you should make it a bit higher than it already is
     
  8. Deef

    Deef

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    On the topic of zeroes, is it possible to fill the leading zero in the score? And is it possible for the game to actually have a timing resolution of milliseconds. I ask because I wonder if both are redundant.
     
  9. flamewing

    flamewing

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    I will be removing the milliseconds digit and keep only centisecond precision; I will also remove the extra (highest) digit I added to score (and it was fillable, yeah; I am removing it only so the HUD stays 'balanced').
     
  10. Liliam

    Liliam

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    Dammit why do you never call me for these things. :(

    [​IMG]
     
  11. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    I've always assumed they fell to the sea... for some reason.
     
  12. flamewing

    flamewing

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    I think I will start to :)
     
  13. dsrb

    dsrb

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    This actually sounds quite awesome!
     
  14. Hitaxas

    Hitaxas

    Retro 80's themed Twitch streamer ( on hiatus) Member
    I find the parachute idea interesting... but why not just replace the turtle with another color of Flicky, or another flying animal?
     
  15. flamewing

    flamewing

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    For starters, turtles do not appear anywhere else in the game; by itself this would be easy enough to change, but there is no other level more appropriate than SCZ for turtles -- it is the only level with turtle-like badniks, and it just screams for turtles. Also, I wanted to solve one thing that always bugged me in that level -- that the turtles just fell to their deaths; I can't solve that it I remvoe the turtles from the level. Finally, because the parachutes look great in action :-) I will get a video showing it when I finish doing a couple things I am working on.
     
  16. Deef

    Deef

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    Really happy to hear this actually. :)
    The turtles thing sounds great too.


    Two things this hack has made me notice:
    1. I can not get enough of Emerald Hill. I just can't stop playing it, and when I get to the end I just play it again. Not only does the zone complement this hack so incredibly well, but this hack makes me really, really admire Emerald Hill's level design in its own right. It's like having all this three-way bouncing, homing, air-curling nonsense really increases the player's ability to feel out a level. Tl;dr - Just loving Emerald Hill tonnes more than ever before. I honestly wonder if any other classic zone with this hack would be so fun.

    2. Some of the diagonal springs in Emerald Hill are very suspicious in that they land you right on top of a monitor. Why suspicious? Because thanks to this hack you can now curl up before landing, thus crack open the monitor and thus use all that spring's speed and height to get a free rebound into the stratosphere. Try the first diagonal yellow spring in act 2; don't press any direction, just curl up in the air. Two free bounces and in that particular area there is heaps to play with. I actually hit those 2 bounces, snaked down the gap to fall onto the quarterpipe leading left, rolled all the way left, got flung up in the air again, bounced several times more heading to the right on the badniks all around, actually made it past the vertical yellow spring without using it, bounced off yet another buzzer.... From start to finish look at the massive distance traveled in one long stretch of no-running classic physics. Or you know the life high up on some floating terrain with 4 Coconuts? You can again use a spring and recurl to bounce off a lightning shield all the way up there, then thanks to the shield's protection you've got another 5 bounces to pick up before dropping off the edge again and seeing what you find. Pretty cool.

    I was actually against the idea flamewing implemented of Sonic being able to re-curl in the air from any state. For Tails and Knuckles it made sense, but for Sonic I felt that it wasn't right that he could enter his protected spinning state again without some ground to push off. But having discovered all the setups on offer from springs that just never existed before, I love it. It's better than the Tails + Knuckles fly, carry, huge drop, glide bounce manoeuvre.


    Gotta say, this isn't just my favourite hack, this is a contender for my favourite classic Sonic game. The main hook of 3 characters, the Sonic 3 refinements in physics and controls, the small but great tweaks flamewing has made to the controls - all really fun. Big props to you flamewing for dabbling in the controls without stuffing things up and in fact making things simply funner.
     
  17. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    But Flicky already has a net for that in his game, and would take less tiles.


    Or else, (classic) Charmy. =P
     
  18. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    That annoying piece of shit will ruin what is an otherwise epic hack. I'm for the Flicky with the net... whenever a Turtle falls, a Flicky can swoop down and catch him with a net, much like in his own original game.
     
  19. dsrb

    dsrb

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    I have no real opinion about the curling, but I don't know how I feel about the characters been able to use their mid-air moves even when they're not curled-up (I.e. Sonic can insta-shield off a spring, Knuckles can glide, etc.). It feels a bit weird and might make things too easy—although admittedly the core idea of the hack already does that to quite an extent. And obviously, the ability to re-curl in the air would make mid-air actions easier than they originally were anyway, even if the characters couldn't do them from springs and had to curl first (a trivial single button-press).

    Just rambling as usual. Any opinions?
     
  20. flamewing

    flamewing

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    A tidbit of history can illuminate my decision not to do this: when I first tried allowing a button press to trigger the double-jump action, it was awkward for the first few times I tried; particularly since Sonic did not curl up into a ball at this stage when triggering his double-jump actions, and was left vulnerable. So I changed Sonic to curl up when you used a double-jump action; and with this change, I quickly got used to triggering double-jump actions this way. The best way I can put it is that it felt natural: it took less than a minute before I got used to it and could use it well, although with some occasional mistakes.

    I then tried requiring the player to curl up first. This means: from a normal jump, pressing jump allows a double jump; but after bouncing from a spring or running off a ledge, you had to press jump to curl into a ball then jump again to activate the double-jump action. After two weeks of trying, I still could not get used to it: it felt awkward -- the insta-shield not so much, as it basically curls you up and temporarily increases attack range (and invincibility during that time), but everything else. For Tails and Knuckles, the flight and gliding felt unnatural in this setup -- why did they have to curl up first anyway, if they are going to uncurl right back? For Sonic with the shields, it required huge practice in getting them to do what you want -- you have to train quick double-tapping and train your reflexes just so you can perform the double-jump actions when you need them.

    In the end, I reverted to not requiring curling up before the double-jump because the learning curve is shallower and because it makes more sense in most cases: in the case of Tails and Knuckles, it is obvious why; for the shields, Sonic is able to use their power to generate momentum out of nowhere, so why not angular momentum (curling up) as well? Only the insta-shield is left more-or-less hanging; but then again, the alternative of requiring curling up first is worse in this regard.