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Sonic Classic Heroes

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by flamewing, Nov 2, 2010.

  1. Effexor

    Effexor

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    Just a minor quip, but when Knuckles spin-dashes, the camera doesn't lag behind him like it normally should. And if the other two are spin-dashing, the camera spazzes kinda when those two go off.

    This hack is still amazing, regardless. One little suggestion is maybe tewaking the AI so, for example, the order is Sonic - Tails - Knuckles, that Sonic jumps, the Tails jumps, then Knuckles jumps AFTER Tails, rather than WITH Tails. Maybe increase partner 1's reaction time somewhat so it comes between the player and what it normally is?
     
  2. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    <!--quoteo(post=525894:date=Nov 3 2010, 05:36 PM:name=Effexor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Effexor @ Nov 3 2010, 05:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=525894">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One little suggestion is maybe tewaking the AI so, for example, the order is Sonic - Tails - Knuckles, that Sonic jumps, the Tails jumps, then Knuckles jumps AFTER Tails, rather than WITH Tails.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The constant triple jumping sound would make anybody with ears go insane, though.
     
  3. Overlord

    Overlord

    Now playable in Smash Bros Ultimate Moderator
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    <!--quoteo(post=525886:date=Nov 3 2010, 09:27 PM:name=Neo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Neo @ Nov 3 2010, 09:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=525886">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=525879:date=Nov 3 2010, 09:10 PM:name=Overlord)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Overlord @ Nov 3 2010, 09:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=525879">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've merged in the posts from the General Projects thread.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    So I've noticed. I've split the post I was making when you started playing around. :argh:
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Saw your post, cursed at the fact I had no way to split it, decided to leave it where it was. Thanks for fixing that for me. =P
     
  4. Crappy Blue

    Crappy Blue

    Knuckles' Chaotix is a perfect game with no flaws Member
    <!--quoteo(post=525900:date=Nov 3 2010, 02:45 PM:name=ICEknight)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ICEknight @ Nov 3 2010, 02:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=525900">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=525894:date=Nov 3 2010, 05:36 PM:name=Effexor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Effexor @ Nov 3 2010, 05:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=525894">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One little suggestion is maybe tewaking the AI so, for example, the order is Sonic - Tails - Knuckles, that Sonic jumps, the Tails jumps, then Knuckles jumps AFTER Tails, rather than WITH Tails.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The constant triple jumping sound would make anybody with ears go insane, though.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Another option is, of course, the DKC route. Just remove the other two characters' ability to make sound when not in the lead position.
     
  5. Tribeam

    Tribeam

    I code Lua and Lua accessories Member
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    <!--quoteo(post=525886:date=Nov 3 2010, 04:27 PM:name=Neo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Neo @ Nov 3 2010, 04:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=525886">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=525849:date=Nov 3 2010, 08:04 PM:name=nineko)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nineko @ Nov 3 2010, 08:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=525849">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Here is how the palette looks like in the level select:
    [​IMG]
    The palette line used by Sonic + Tails is now the second line. Knuckles' colors are now in the fourth line, in different indexes, even.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Uh, no, bro. Knuckles' colors are in line 1 - the first two reds are now Knuckles' medium and dark reds, and the brightest gray has been dropped for the bright red. I know this, it's blatantly obvious when you look at the character sprites up close.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Actually, both of you are wrong, By using my palette editor(shown in the screenshot) you can see that all 3 character's colors are used on the second line, and a lot of colors are shared with each other such as one of Knuckles' shades are shared with the "zone #" text and one of Sonic's blue shades is shared with the static screen.

    For Reference here is what each line represents:
    Line 0: Background + Save Slot Boarders
    Line 1: Characters + Random Stuff
    Line 2: Emeralds
    Line 3: Current Selected Level Preview Colors


    Screen(I changed the colors to show what is where):
    [​IMG]
     
  6. nineko

    nineko

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    Well, it turns out I was wrong. Thanks, Tribeam.
     
  7. Ell678

    Ell678

    Am I Annoying You? Member
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    Sonic Incursion
    <!--quoteo(post=525871:date=Nov 3 2010, 08:49 PM:name=DigitalDuck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DigitalDuck @ Nov 3 2010, 08:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=525871">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Awaiting collaboration with ColinC10, and "Sonic 1 and 2 Heroes".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Retro would acheive God-like status, for having such amazing games coming from it's members if this happened.
     
  8. I had a weird collision bug in Chemical Plant Act 2, I flew up as Tails and got caught in some sorta.. invisible box, behind a loop.

    Any idea why that happened?
     
  9. flamewing

    flamewing

    Emerald Hunter Tech Member
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    Sonic Classic Heroes; Sonic 2 Special Stage Editor; Sonic 3&K Heroes (on hold)
    <!--quoteo(post=525963:date=Nov 3 2010, 11:04 PM:name=Limey Otoko)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Limey Otoko @ Nov 3 2010, 11:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=525963">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I had a weird collision bug in Chemical Plant Act 2, I flew up as Tails and got caught in some sorta.. invisible box, behind a loop.

    Any idea why that happened?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Can you post a screenshot of the location? It may help tracking it down.
     
  10. Super Egg

    Super Egg

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    It could be possible that it was just Chemical Plant's Tiles. If you go fast enough in a loop the same thing happens to you.
     
  11. Tichmall

    Tichmall

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    There're several of those invisible collisions boxes in Hill Top Zone, mainly when you take a path at the top of the zone thanks to Tails. I even passed through a whole wall that made me skip a cavern. I'll try to locate this wall, but there're other parts with this problem.

    I noticed that loops in general have that kind of problem about collisions. In CPZ, in HTZ...

    Another bug is the palette of Sonic's face used on the slot machines in CNZ, a shade of blue is actually green on it.

    Game is still enjoyable though. When I can't pass a loop, one of the other two characters can do it, just have to launch him with a spin dash and to take control of him when he passes the loop. So a really good work both for what you came up with, and for your current efforts to make the game perfect. :)
     
  12. <!--quoteo(post=525415:date=Nov 2 2010, 03:51 PM:name=flamewing)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (flamewing @ Nov 2 2010, 03:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=525415">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My plan is to have him jump back into the screen, making him return the fastest of the 3.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    you mean like in Knuckles Chaotix? Why not use THAT code? Or are 32x and Genesis/MD codes different? [/noob]
     
  13. Endri

    Endri

    Officer I don't have my drivers license with me. C Tech Member
    <!--quoteo(post=525976:date=Nov 3 2010, 11:37 PM:name=::CMG (UTOPIA)::)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (::CMG (UTOPIA):: @ Nov 3 2010, 11:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=525976">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=525415:date=Nov 2 2010, 03:51 PM:name=flamewing)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (flamewing @ Nov 2 2010, 03:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=525415">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My plan is to have him jump back into the screen, making him return the fastest of the 3.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    you mean like in Knuckles Chaotix? Why not use THAT code? Or are 32x and Genesis/MD codes different? [/noob]
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I belive in "not exactly as in Knuckles Chaotix," since the scalling and rotating effects are not present. :rolleyes:
     
  14. Xenowhirl

    Xenowhirl

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    <!--quoteo(post=525846:date=Nov 3 2010, 02:53 PM:name=Neo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Neo @ Nov 3 2010, 02:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=525846">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=525635:date=Nov 3 2010, 04:20 AM:name=flamewing)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (flamewing @ Nov 3 2010, 04:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=525635">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You have a nice eye for detail. I went through the route of cramming the 3 characters in the same palette line; using the S3&K Sonic (which has one less shade of blue) allowed me to add one shade of pink for Knuckles and removing one of the grays allowed me to add the green for his socks. I then swapped the reds for the Knuckles colors, so that Sonic's and Tails' shoes aren't exactly red. The palette reuse everywhere from S2 made title cards, Robotnik and several badniks mis-colored, with the grays being merged being probably more noticeable -- although the changed reds is also noticeable, particularly in Robotnik.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This is exactly the same process I followed a few years ago when I compressed all the characters into a single palette line, only to later realise I've been beaten to the point -- Sonic 3 did just this in its Data Select, and that was in 1994!

    While the grays do lose some detail, since most of the characters only really use white as a base color (for gloves, eyes, and in case of Tails, half his body) and the grays are essentially just used for shading, dropping one shade isn't really that noticeable (Tails gets the most noticeable drop in detail, again due to his high use of the color). The biggest problem is really the medium red, which is a bit darker than the pure red used for shoes, making everything that was red seem too dark. There is really no other way to fix this other than simply make new sprites to adjust to the new palette, using both the medium and bright reds to even it out a bit.

    [​IMG]
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Sorry, I have to add to this: The palette I used didn't require removing a shade of gray, didn't require switching to Sonic 3 sprites (since it still has 4 shades of blue), didn't require making all the reds darker or pinker, and still gave Knuckles his pinkish-red color. And it fits all in 1 palette line except for the 1 shade of green, and since that's only 1 color, it's easy to find room for it in another palette line without noticeably changing how things look. So, just saying, it's not as impossible as everyone seems to think it is to reduce the palette-related side effects more than this.

    [I'm sure more details are desired, but I already posted two pictures with the palette I'm talking about, and I don't want to fill up this thread with posts about it. If and when I have something I think is ready to show, I'll post it in another thread and explain it there.]
     
  15. Lanzer

    Lanzer

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    This hack is sick I love it!

    Thought of putting details from SH in? like the time/ring/score fonts and the character circles?
     
  16. flamewing

    flamewing

    Emerald Hunter Tech Member
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    Sonic Classic Heroes; Sonic 2 Special Stage Editor; Sonic 3&K Heroes (on hold)
    <!--quoteo(post=526006:date=Nov 4 2010, 01:15 AM:name=Xenowhirl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xenowhirl @ Nov 4 2010, 01:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=526006">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sorry, I have to add to this: The palette I used didn't require removing a shade of gray, didn't require switching to Sonic 3 sprites (since it still has 4 shades of blue), didn't require making all the reds darker or pinker, and still gave Knuckles his pinkish-red color. And it fits all in 1 palette line except for the 1 shade of green, and since that's only 1 color, it's easy to find room for it in another palette line without noticeably changing how things look. So, just saying, it's not as impossible as everyone seems to think it is to reduce the palette-related side effects more than this.

    [I'm sure more details are desired, but I already posted two pictures with the palette I'm talking about, and I don't want to fill up this thread with posts about it. If and when I have something I think is ready to show, I'll post it in another thread and explain it there.]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You are using two of the more grayish blues to double as shades of gray and of blue. You probably swapped them for the similar grays and put Knuckles' pinkish shades in their place, as they are the only palette entries that are 'safe' because of Super Sonic. And shunting off the green to another palette line means you may have edited Knuckles art so that the socks are in separate tiles which are shunted into a different palette line.

    While I will look into doing something similar (back to sed for me), I will still keep the S3&K sprites because I prefer them to the S2 ones.
     
  17. Fred

    Fred

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    <!--quoteo(post=525939:date=Nov 3 2010, 11:53 PM:name=Tribeam)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tribeam @ Nov 3 2010, 11:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=525939">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually, both of you are wrong<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    no

    <!--quoteo(post=525886:date=Nov 3 2010, 04:27 PM:name=Neo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Neo @ Nov 3 2010, 04:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=525886">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Knuckles' colors are in line 1<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--quoteo(post=525939:date=Nov 3 2010, 11:53 PM:name=Tribeam)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tribeam @ Nov 3 2010, 11:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=525939">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Line 1: Characters + Random Stuff<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <!--quoteo(post=526006:date=Nov 4 2010, 03:15 AM:name=Xenowhirl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xenowhirl @ Nov 4 2010, 03:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=526006">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The palette I used didn't require removing a shade of gray, didn't require switching to Sonic 3 sprites (since it still has 4 shades of blue), didn't require making all the reds darker or pinker, and still gave Knuckles his pinkish-red color.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    But in exchange the characters' gloves look too blue, and Sonic is too gray. I was actually impressed at how "okay" it looked when I first saw those two screenshots, but I still prefer this way of doing it.
     
  18. dsrb

    dsrb

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    <!--quoteo(post=525900:date=Nov 3 2010, 09:45 PM:name=ICEknight)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ICEknight @ Nov 3 2010, 09:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=525900">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=525894:date=Nov 3 2010, 05:36 PM:name=Effexor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Effexor @ Nov 3 2010, 05:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=525894">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One little suggestion is maybe tewaking the AI so, for example, the order is Sonic - Tails - Knuckles, that Sonic jumps, the Tails jumps, then Knuckles jumps AFTER Tails, rather than WITH Tails.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->The constant triple jumping sound would make anybody with ears go insane, though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->So have it play only once, for Sonic. :P

    I'll give this a go later; looks interesting!
     
  19. Miles3298

    Miles3298

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    [​IMG]

    If you pick up someone next to a monitor (or possibly other objects), they will be in a walking animation.

    <a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?2icxrf3ccmcyzes" target="_blank">Here's an AVI File to demonstrate this, if necessary.</a> AVI recorded with Kega, so to view that you'll need to have that decoder thing installed.
     
  20. flamewing

    flamewing

    Emerald Hunter Tech Member
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    Sonic Classic Heroes; Sonic 2 Special Stage Editor; Sonic 3&K Heroes (on hold)
    <!--quoteo(post=526094:date=Nov 4 2010, 11:05 AM:name=Mester Keel98)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mester Keel98 @ Nov 4 2010, 11:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=526094">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you pick up someone next to a monitor (or possibly other objects), they will be in a walking animation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    As it turns out, the root cause of this bug is the same as from the one that was causing Sonic and Knuckles to animate too fast while being carried. Both are fixed for good now. I am doing some palette corrections from switching from dark gray to black (particularly noticeable in Tails and in the Tornado) and will at least get Tails and Knuckles into Sky Chase before the next revision is released.

    Edit:
    <!--quoteo(post=526088:date=Nov 4 2010, 10:11 AM:name=Neo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Neo @ Nov 4 2010, 10:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=526088">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But in exchange the characters' gloves look too blue, and Sonic is too gray. I was actually impressed at how "okay" it looked when I first saw those two screenshots, but I still prefer this way of doing it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    There is that downside, yeah. The flip side would be having Super Knuckles use some of his own colors, and maybe even Super Tails. Or maybe I can make the palette rotate between their respective super colors.