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Sonic Classic Heroes

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by flamewing, Nov 2, 2010.

  1. flamewing

    flamewing

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    Sonic Classic Heroes; Sonic 2 Special Stage Editor; Sonic 3&K Heroes (on hold)
    I have no intention of copying the rolling-jump change from SCD.

    As for the update, it is coming; but that inner ear infection I mentioned earlier has annoyed me to no end, which is why it is taking so long.

    On another note, I have tried adding a Hyper Sonic-style hyperdash (minus screen whiteout and killing badniks) to Super Sonic -- it does make him a lot more powerful. I will experiment with the idea of letting Super Sonic use normal shield abilities (perhaps even going as far as adding separate palette rotations for different shields -- Fire Super Sonic and so on); I will also see about adding some shield/aura-like effects for these cases just so it is not too plain. Also, does anyone have any ideas for a dash-like effect for the normal shield's homing attack? It is too plain at present...
     
  2. Deef

    Deef

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    Oh don't get me wrong; I much prefer Sonic 3's rolling jump. I'm an insta-shield addict, I love how that move works. I'd be bummed if you changed it because right now this hack is a real Sonic 3 fix for me.

    The SuperSonic changes sound fun. It's a shame there's nothing he can do with all that power.

    I can't really think of any suggestions for a homing effect that would look good. Perhaps something like the light flashes that follow Sonic in Sonic CD when he's about to time travel? To display when he does a homing attack, but not an air dash.
    Or perhaps a homing-attacked badnik can drop a little flower, Sonic CD style. Heh, just a silly suggestion to push an idea around.


    One more bug that I don't know if anyone's mentioned. If you go too close to the end of EHZ 1 then turn back, some of the sprites are messed up. Mainly spikes and springs. I'm guessing that's present in the original as well?
     
  3. flamewing

    flamewing

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    It isn't, no: in the original, the end-of-act signpost loads its art through PLC when the screen locks; I do it with DPLC (to use less VRAM) but, as it turns out, I do it much earlier than needed. I fixed it so that the signpost only loads art when it is on-screen, which means that the screen is locked already.
     
  4. FeliciaVal

    FeliciaVal

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    there is a small suggestion I'd like to do, since I'm having a lot of difficulty to beat the special stages with the three of them because they just jump right after Sonic, Knuckles and Tails lose many rings, maybe is there a way to like, when pressing B+ C to make them jump at once? I'm sure it would be useful to a lot of people who is having the same trouble on special stages
     
  5. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    I don't see the problem... They can't lose Sonic's rings, can they?
     
  6. FeliciaVal

    FeliciaVal

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    no, but they lose their own rings, and in my case they get those rings, lose them, then makes it even more difficult to beat the stages
     
  7. Aquaslash

    Aquaslash

    <The Has-been Legend> Moderator
    Clearly you have never had to suffer through losing Emeralds because Tails lost that ONE ring. :|
     
  8. flamewing

    flamewing

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    The special stages should be easier in any event because I don't increase the ring requirements based on number of players -- I had disabled the increase until I finished programming Knuckles in, and never turned it back on. But in any event, I need to stop procrastinating and program optional join-in of players in special stages...
     
  9. FeliciaVal

    FeliciaVal

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    that's not what I mean. I don't care about the ring requirement or not, it's fine the way it is, what I mean is that having 3 players jumping one after another makes it more difficult because the last player gets hit by bombs because he jumps really late, we all suffered this in Sonic 2 when Tails jumps later than Sonic making Tails's rings decrease and thus now having Knuckles you lose rings even faster. All I was asking for a possibility to make the 3 players jumping at once by a combination of buttons, so this problem isn't present anymore, but I think I explained myself wrongly...
     
  10. flamewing

    flamewing

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    I understood you; what I meant to say (but digressed away at the ring requirements) was that this problem will basically go away when I implement optional join-in of players in special stages. That would still allow 2- or 3-player special stages (a human player could join in and play), but would save you from having to deal with the "AI's" shortcomings because they would not be present.
     
  11. FeliciaVal

    FeliciaVal

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    ohh ok, well I hope so then, looking forward to it
     
  12. Miles3298

    Miles3298

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    Ouch, at the reserving the AI for human-controlled players in special stages. I was relying on using the three characters' delayed movements to get rings that a single player couldn't quite get all of. Without that trick by my side, I can't see myself getting every emerald legitimately again, since this last revision was my first time doing so.
     
  13. flamewing

    flamewing

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    I can also make them join in if you press A on the player 1 controller: that would allow the best of both worlds, as anyone that wants to play the special stages without the AI can do so.
     
  14. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    I would simply suggest improving your skill with the special stages. I was able to easily ace these special stages with 3 characters in one try each... just a matter of knowing how to manipulate the characters the right way. If anything, I found it easier with 3 characters than I ever did with one. There is more strategy to it with 3 though... so keep practicing.
    EDIT: Then again... I have played Sonic 2 since it first came out... so, yea
     
  15. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    Isn't the delay of the third character the exact same Tails used to have in the original Sonic 2? That would make gameplay in both identical, not even having to adapt to it.
     
  16. Miles3298

    Miles3298

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    I wouldn't say that the gameplay was identical at all, really. There's now three different characters, each with their own ringcount - the effects of accidentally running into a spike set are a bit different. You can potentially lose way more rings at a time. If one or two AIs get hit, you can get their positions desynced for a little bit, which can get chaotic. With these three also comes a benefit - you can use the delayed movement of the two following characters to stockpile rings if where one or two players previously could not get all of those in a line or pile, simply by moving the leader ahead to get the right-most rings in a big pile, the secondary to grab the ones in the middle he couldn't have gotten, and the third to get the ones on the left-most side of the pile that the secondary couldn't have gotten. This trick is pretty much my crutch in getting some of the later emeralds - my skill is as high as it's gonna get, and every little thing helps.

    You could say it controlled identically, however, if that's what you meant.
     
  17. RetroKoH

    RetroKoH

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    You are correct about that. Basically it just comes down to manipulation. of the other character(s) to make sure they don't get hit, all while keeping your own count. Since the third character has the same speed as Tails in the old game, it should just be the same strategy as in the old game... only this time, keep in mind that there is a second character that is in the middle, and the noted lack of requirement increase of rings... and this is actually easier since three characters can collect more rings...

    So, it does have a little bit more strategy compared to one... as I said, and it is easier, due to the points both you and I just made. So, the person I was quoting before must improve their skill if they cannot get the emeralds, and the game should not need another edit to the special stages, other than small graphical bugs I've noticed.
     
  18. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    Well, I mean identical gameplay in every way, seeing how the delay between the first and last characters are indeed the same.

    The character in the middle reacts faster than the last one, so it should always be less of a problem. And the last one is just like in the original game.
     
  19. Deef

    Deef

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    I agree. Another way of saying "We all suffered this in Sonic 2" is "Sonic 2 plays like this."

    Besides, the infamous Tails-induced ring-loss in Sonic 2's special stages is a rather iconic piece of its nostalgia. I don't think nerfing the special stages in the name of less suffering is worth the removal of that memory. Speeding the third character up to the reaction time of Sonic 2's second character was a good move. I don't think more is needed, otherwise it would mean the player wasn't good enough at it in Sonic 2 to begin with. I am one example of this also; I suck at Sonic 2's specials. But I definitely don't want them made any easier.
     
  20. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    In any case, the solution to making all characters move at once is pretty simple: Just map all three controllers to the same buttons in the emulator, and there you go.