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Sonic Classic Heroes

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by flamewing, Nov 2, 2010.

  1. flamewing

    flamewing

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    Sonic Classic Heroes; Sonic 2 Special Stage Editor; Sonic 3&K Heroes (on hold)
    I guess you missed the changelog entry where I explicitly said I changed that. I see no reason why, say, Tails can fly after jumping but not after falling off a ledge.
     
  2. BSonirachi

    BSonirachi

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    Whoops. I guess you can disregard what I said then.
     
  3. flamewing

    flamewing

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    FYI, I know about the bugged wind tunnels in WFZ, and have fixed them already.
     
  4. flamewing

    flamewing

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    Sorry for the double-post, but I have a new revision: download it here.

    Changelog:
    Enhancements over previous revision:
    • Each character now has his own independent chain bonus counter.
    • New mappings/art for MTZ boss to make it look closer to original.
    • Making smarter use of HUD code to reduce DMA transfers related to portraits when swapping characters to a bare minimum.
    • Knuckles has been added to CNZ slot machine, giving 25 rings (same as Tails). Added also Super Sonic slot image by Gsuki, used when super transformation is on.
    • Slightly modified the workings of the super cheat (code still the same).
    Bugs fixed from previous revision:
    • ARZ boss did not load unless you were playing with all 3 characters.
    • Continue screen fixed.
    • Fixed damn Sonic respawning bug when leader is dead.
    • Tails' tails could appear behind other characters.
    • Tails could save Sonic or Knuckles from drowning by carrying them while drowning countdown ends.
    • CPU respawning while leader jumped down to WFZ end-of-act cutscene prevented cutscene from working.
    • Sonic could turn super with regular shield instead of doing homing attack. This has been changed for consistency with other shields.
    • Shields could overwrite VRAM for super stars if you turned super after breaking a shield monitor but before the shield appeared.
    • Fixed Oil Ocean launcher speed-up bug (by MoDule).
    • Buggy interactions and controls with wind tunnels.
    Bugs fixed from the original games:
    • Incorrect register usage during slot machine randomization.
     
  5. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    That makes Sonic look like he has a mullet, something very common in Super Sonic fan sprites, and something I really don't like.

    The icon in Sonic 3 & Knuckles looked better:
    [​IMG]
     
  6. flamewing

    flamewing

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    Sonic Classic Heroes; Sonic 2 Special Stage Editor; Sonic 3&K Heroes (on hold)
    If I am to use the S3&K icon, I will have to edit it a fair bit: in S3&K, the slot icons use their own palette line, whereas the S2 icons use the same line as the players. I had to do a fair bit of editing to Knuckles' icon to get it looking good, and in a similar style to the other icons. I have no preference either way between Gsuki's and S3&K's Super Sonic icon.
     
  7. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    I've just made this one using 12 colors, based on both Sonic 2's and Sonic 3K's icons, trying to alter the graphics the less I could while maintaining the Sonic 2 style:
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  8. flamewing

    flamewing

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    This one you made is better than the one I just made, so I guess I will use yours instead.

    Edit: Fun fact: at some point during development, they intended the Super Sonic icon in the S3&K slot machine to give 200 rings (twice as much as a jackpot!) when you got 3 of them. Alas, they never actually modified the slot sequences such that you can get the Super Sonic icon...
     
  9. Deef

    Deef

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    Downloading. Fun little tweak, if easy and possible, would be that instead of 3xSonic earning the most rings it could be 3xthe current leader. So if you're Knuckles and you get 3xSonic you only get 25 rings.

    You know, if that's already exactly what it does, ignore me. I can't remember such details.

    I like both Gsuki's and ICEknight's SuperSonic icons.



    Aww no more Oil Ocean speed bug. I enjoyed that one. I hope you don't change the spin-dash-jump-straight-up bug... I always thought that was pretty cool to pull off.
     
  10. flamewing

    flamewing

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    It can be done, but I don't know if it is worth it to do it -- lots of checks need to be added.

    That one has been fixed too; I just forgot to mention it on the changelogs, as it was fixed when I fixed another bug (the one where you can't spindash from the edge of the screen).
     
  11. FeliciaVal

    FeliciaVal

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    I don't know if this has been already reported or not, but if you end the game with the super team, and you see the cutscene, Knuckles does not appear when they're flying down the Death Egg therefore he doesn't land on the plane, but he does appear later when the plane is panning off screen and then he jumps with Sonic and Tails.
     
  12. Tweaker

    Tweaker

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    I just fixed this. Sorry about that.
     
  13. Deef

    Deef

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    Shucks. I liked how that spin-dash thing was kind of an emergency abort if you suddenly saw you were about to launch yourself into danger... if you could pull it off. My cousin was much better at that than I; we never really saw it as a bug. Doh well.

    While the topic is still recent, my personal preference is for the Sonic 2 jackpot icons over Sonic 3's.

    Bugs/things:
    · The 1-up icon (in the monitor) has gone back to only ever showing the game leader (not current leader) again.
    · Tails can use the jackpot machine forever by flying back in. Not a bug, just an in-game expoit. However a slight bug when you do this is that the camera doesn't lift itself enough to show the roulette wheels if he flies in from below.
    (Interesting result with the jackpot wheel: 3xRobotnik, 3xRobotnik, 3xRobotnik, Knuckles-Robotnik-Knuckles (still got the spikes), 3x Robotnik. Five sets of spikes in a row!)
    · Buzz Bombers still shooting fire that all shields reflect instead of the fire shield absorbing (I mention it again because I think you were going to change that but forgot). There aren't any fire shields in EHZ anyway, are there?

    · I see that when characters are switched, their layer is cycled through the 3 of them. What about if instead of cycling, it sets the new leader to the front layer but leaves the other two as they were. Probably another thing not worth the time; I only mention it because of this:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    In the second image the player has switched to Tails, but the most prominent thing on screen was Knuckles popping up on top of Sonic. Totally minor not-even-a-nitpick, I know. Like the jackpot suggestion, I doubt it's worth the time because the minor confusion it can create is super uncommon anyway. Good work with Tails' tails btw.

    · Got stuck in Casino Night Zone:

    [​IMG]

    By holding right, Knuckles would stay stuck there. If I released right he would simply drop back to the plunger, but there was no way out. I had to timeout. Speaking of...

    · Time over digits graphic glitch still happening on occasion:

    [​IMG]


    Super minor queries:
    · Any chance of work on the Knuckles sprite when Tails is carrying all 3?
    · Colours on rings around character icons. Just being pedantic here.
    · Possible to remove the pink from the "TIME/GAME OVER" text?

    Non-technical controls thoughts:
    ( I know you're focusing on just cleaning it up for the contest, but nonetheless here are my thoughts )
    · Have you considered Knuckles carrying the others, exactly the same way as Tails does, but in his fists when he glides? The good news is that you already have the rotate-while-hanging sprites for it. When he hits a wall, the bottom character (if also against the wall) could lift his feet and put them on the wall (again, Sandopolis sprites) and perhaps they could all slowly drift downwards; Knuckles still in gliding animation. Perhaps even little tufts of smoke coming from the bottom character's feet sliding down the wall.
    Then if the bottom character goes lower than the wall's lowest point (ie, the bottom character is now beneath an overhang - see pic), he could let his feet drop to the normal frame and Knuckles' descent would accelerate.
    Pic:

    [​IMG]

    · Knuckles again; any thoughts on letting him glide again after exiting a glide. You know, while he's in that exclusive falling animation. Yes it appears I have embraced the extra-accessible glide/fly moves.

    · I like that you've played it safe with your peel-out execution, but are you considering other executions in the future? There have been a handful of different peel-out methods over the years. Just wondering about your thoughts on that one too. One more thing, what about using the Sonic CD sound effect on it? Separating it from the spin-dash audibly would avoid that shoe-in hack feel. I'm guessing you've already thought of that though.

    · Do you think you'll eventually disable up+jump=spin dash for T&K?


    Anyway, many pointless notes and comments based on personal taste, I know. Thanks for the read.
     
  14. Miles3298

    Miles3298

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    My Casino Night slot machine results were a lot like Deef's. I think those things are now rigged to make you almost always lose. I got two Knuckleses and a Robotnik (and later two Robotniks and a Knuckles) and still got the spikes, and then way later on (after exactly 2 wins out of 14 losses, not counting getting spiked or when you only get two rings for something) I got 2 Sonics and a Jackpot and the game froze me in place, forcing me to get a time over - right when I was about to quit gambling at just after 9 minutes in, too.
     
  15. Deef

    Deef

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    Hmm I just thought it might be dumb luck but perhaps there's something in it.

    · Just now, playing with Supers cheat on, I started a Sonic leader game as usual, switched to (Super)Tails while playing, and came across a 1-up with SuperKnuckles on it.

    · Probably already noted, but when Tails carries the others in Sky Chase it's glitchy. They jitter and fall off.

    · Is it possible to make it so that, when hit and dropping rings, the other character can't collect your lost rings until the lead character can (after the forced delay that's built in)?
     
  16. flamewing

    flamewing

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    Thanks for the report. This was caused by Tails' tails layering code; I have it fixed now.

    Many thanks for that! Please note that I am not opposed to the idea of limiting quotes; but the implementation was rather draconian. I don't know how feasible it is to tweak it, but changing it so that multiple quotes from the same post could count as a single quote would deal with most of my problems with it. The other problems would be dealt by allowing a single nested quote (quote within quote) for 'free' in each outer quote. If possible, offloading as much of this work to the clients, to avoid adding too much strain to the server.

    The only icon I am using from S3&K is for Knuckles, edited to fit the others.

    Thanks for the report; I fixed it.

    That is a bug... caused by an oversight. Knuckles is being treated as a jackpot, rings are being treated as bars and jackpots and bars have no special effects.

    Nope.

    Given that I specifically designed it to be this way, I am not that interested in changing it.

    Not that good, since I managed to make it break the ending sequence...

    I fixed both of these now.

    Anyone is welcome to chip in on those two.

    Yes; it looks wrong, and has been articulated earlier in the thread. For the better ways, I will need sprite work.

    I was thinking of doing that too. I will have to go over the code for Knuckles' gliding to see how feasible it is.

    What do you mean? Do you mean other than the spindash-like way of charging the peel-out? If so, then no.

    I hadn't; I will have to check.

    Probably not: it really helps the AI without being costly in terms of cycles.
     
  17. Deef

    Deef

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    Shame to hear that about Knuckles carrying the others.

    I think the Sonic CD sound for the peel-out would be good, if you can think of a way around the fact that it went with a non-button-mashing peel out.

    I know I tend to dwell on the details more than some, so all the replies are much appreciated.
     
  18. flamewing

    flamewing

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    I have taken a look at the SCD peelout sound (and its SFX, in general). It was a cursory look around, and I may be wrong; if so, I would appreciate being corrected by someone more knowledgeable about SCD. The SCD SFX all seem to be SMPS-PCM. Moreover, their headers indicate that they use what would be FM6 in S1/S2/S3/S&K. However, since these are the same channel assignment bits as those for using the DAC (except SFX can't use DAC in those drivers), I am betting means that they either use RF5C164 or DAC to generate output. If this is the case, porting of the SCD peelout is most likely impossible and I will have to try to replicate it otherwise.
     
  19. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Two things:

    1. Shouldn't the background of the Knuckles signpost be green?

    2. Maybe it'd be cool if you made the roulette work like it does in Sonic Heroes, as in the more characters that go in the greater the multiplier. So if Sonic and Tails are in the slot at the same time they'd win like 60 rings instead of 30, and if all three were in they'd win 90 rings instead of 30.
     
  20. flamewing

    flamewing

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    Palette limitations are a PITA. I decided to go a different route back then, but I can check again if I can spare the VRAM.

    I don't think I will go that route, but thanks for the idea.

    On another route for slot machine goodies: how about if the slot machine can give power-ups?