Sonic Classic Heroes

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by flamewing, Nov 2, 2010.

  1. flamewing

    flamewing

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    Sonic Classic Heroes; Sonic 2 Special Stage Editor; Sonic 3&K Heroes (on hold)
    <!--quoteo(post=595071:date=Jun 13 2011, 04:51 PM:name=Gsuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gsuki @ Jun 13 2011, 04:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=595071">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It always bugged me how Sonic's head and stomach distorted a little during his transforming sprites. Hope you don't mind if I edit it to make it look more natural:

    [​IMG]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    As it turns out, this is a mappings error -- Sonic's head is 2 pixels to the left of where it should be. Thanks for spotting it.
     
  2. Shakidna

    Shakidna

    Rehash Rampage Member
    Is Wing Fortress supposed to be beatable? The ending cutscene just goes forever, vertical looping bugs abound, the plane flies off the screen with Tails, Sonic and Knuckles keep dying, a medium sized chunk of space background keeps looping, as well as the spaceship. I was playing as Tails.

    e: Dying on the Wing Fortress boss restarts you above the boss area, with the boss already triggered, and two invisible barriers making the level, once again, unbeatable.
     
  3. flamewing

    flamewing

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    Sonic Classic Heroes; Sonic 2 Special Stage Editor; Sonic 3&K Heroes (on hold)
    <!--quoteo(post=595463:date=Jun 14 2011, 09:35 PM:name=Shakidna)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shakidna @ Jun 14 2011, 09:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=595463">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Is Wing Fortress supposed to be beatable? The ending cutscene just goes forever, vertical looping bugs abound, the plane flies off the screen with Tails, Sonic and Knuckles keep dying, a medium sized chunk of space background keeps looping, as well as the spaceship. I was playing as Tails.

    e: Dying on the Wing Fortress boss restarts you above the boss area, with the boss already triggered, and two invisible barriers making the level, once again, unbeatable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    In the currently revision, playing with Sonic in the lead usually allows you to continue to Death Egg. For better results, keep the other two players closely behind. The next revision, as I mentioned 4 posts above your post, will fix all outstanding issues with the Wing Fortress cutscene.

    I had already found and fixed the issue with the boss area; the next revision will also fix this.
     
  4. Lorenzo The Comic

    Lorenzo The Comic

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    [​IMG]
    I better be careful not to get stuck in this particular area in Wing Fortess until 10 minutes.

    Here's something I found by accident:
    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exMF6YECIiw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exMF6YECIiw</a>

    <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>Game Over tiles bugging Sonic and especially Knuckles in the video above</span>.
     
  5. flamewing

    flamewing

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    Sonic Classic Heroes; Sonic 2 Special Stage Editor; Sonic 3&K Heroes (on hold)
    <!--quoteo(post=595702:date=Jun 15 2011, 03:45 PM:name=Lorenzo The Comic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lorenzo The Comic @ Jun 15 2011, 03:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=595702">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Game Over tiles bugging Sonic and especially Knuckles in the video above.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It is actually bugging the invincibility stars. In any event, I fixed it. It probably also happens with shields, given that they use the same VRAM region, and I fixed it too.

    Now I have another quick poll: which of these for multicarry flight (1,2) and for carry/multicarry glide (A, B, C, D)?
    [​IMG]
    FYI, multicarry flight is currently implemented as option 1, but without correctly setting priorities. It can lead to some jerky camera movement (hardly noticeable unless you keep alternately pressing left and right to change facing) if the current leader is holding at the legs. Multicarry glide is not yet implemented. As for Sonic, I am thinking of having him be faster than the other two (and accelerate faster), but have Tails and Knuckles share Sonic's stats when Sonic is leader.
     
  6. Miles3298

    Miles3298

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    Flight 2, Glide C.

    <!--quoteo(post=596125:date=Jun 16 2011, 08:00 PM:name=flamewing)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (flamewing @ Jun 16 2011, 08:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=596125">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As for Sonic, I am thinking of having him be faster than the other two (and accelerate faster), but have Tails and Knuckles share Sonic's stats when Sonic is leader.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That makes over-shooting jumps (like when attacking a boss such as Silver Sonic) a bit more likely until you get used to his speed, if you up it even just a little. Speaking from experience here, but then again it was a year or two since I've done that.
     
  7. nineko

    nineko

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    Faster, yes. More acceleration, no. Changing the acceleration will mess up everyone's habits until we get used to it (as said in the post above), while more speed = more fun.
     
  8. dsrb

    dsrb

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    Derp question: wasn't Knuckles already a bit slower, anyway? But in either case, it's understandable you'd consider that, as (like people have discussed) Sonic would otherwise have no advantages over Tails besides the shields.

    As for the sprites, I just don't know! Maybe 1/2, and probably D since it seems the least physically and aerodynamically infeasible. :S
     
  9. 2nd for Flight 2, Glide C

    Nineko's suggestion makes sense, changing the acceleration would alter how we know he plays.
     
  10. amphobius

    amphobius

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    Flight 2. Not voting on gliding; the move is not nessaccary.
     
  11. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    <!--quoteo(post=596125:date=Jun 16 2011, 08:00 PM:name=flamewing)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (flamewing @ Jun 16 2011, 08:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=596125">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[​IMG]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->2 for flight, C for glide. It's the only formations that make some sense and don't look extremely awkward to look at...


    However, they could also use the circle formation from the original Heroes (similar to the one you've used at the very bottom) while going down, when the player releases the button. They could be shown spinning while holding hands, using their respective floating animations.

    <!--quoteo(post=596125:date=Jun 16 2011, 08:00 PM:name=flamewing)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (flamewing @ Jun 16 2011, 08:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=596125">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As for Sonic, I am thinking of having him be faster than the other two (and accelerate faster), but have Tails and Knuckles share Sonic's stats when Sonic is leader.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Perhaps you could try assigning the Competition mode stats to each character? I'd make that optional, though, since people are already very used to Sonic's original speed, as has been said.
     
  12. MotorRoach

    MotorRoach

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    2 for flight, and D for gliding.

    Because if you made A for gliding, they would be too close to the floor when gliding in a straight place, not to mention Sonic and Tails might easily hit their faces on anything that's on the air. Kind of the same goes for B. On C, it wouldn't make much sense to have Sonic and Tails to hold on Knuckles' legs, and in a logical way, it would also put alot of weight into Knuckles' legs, he would probably be unable to glide if he really had to carry Sonic and Tails on his legs like that. On D, it's the one that I like the best as Knuckles probably focus his strength on his arms to glide, and would also be able to have Sonic and Tails to hold his arms with no big problem.
     
  13. dsrb

    dsrb

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    <!--quoteo(post=596359:date=Jun 17 2011, 08:21 PM:name=Gsuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gsuki @ Jun 17 2011, 08:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=596359">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2 for flight, and D for gliding.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->brofist
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->good explanation<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Thanks! I didn't feel up to doing anything so outlandish as explaining my choice, but this is basically why.
     
  14. Ollie

    Ollie

    DIGGY DIGGY HOLE Member
    2 + A.

    Simply because I've seen them both done before in a few fan games a few years back so it's recognisable.
     
  15. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    <!--quoteo(post=596431:date=Jun 17 2011, 06:56 PM:name=Ollie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ollie @ Jun 17 2011, 06:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=596431">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2 + A.

    Simply because I've seen them both done before in a few fan games a few years back so it's recognisable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    So A looks recognizeably bad? =\

    The hanging characters should be going the opposite direction Knuckles is going to.
     
  16. dsrb

    dsrb

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    Good point. That somewhat applies to Tails, too, although I still think 2 looks better (less bad?) than 1. I wonder if there are any alternative sprites that could be tried out? Not that I want to slave-drive flamewing, obviously!
     
  17. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    Yeah, 2 looks a little bit awkward, but Sonic's legs could be slightly edited so Knuckles can hang from them at the same position than him, forming a straight column.
     
  18. Xodras

    Xodras

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    On the topic of Sonic's speed. I'm fairly sure he had some sort of ability for even more speed in his Sonic CD era. Prehaps applying Sonic 3's body onto these sprites maybe a feasible idea;

    <a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/687/unledpc.png/" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>
     
  19. flamewing

    flamewing

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    Sonic Classic Heroes; Sonic 2 Special Stage Editor; Sonic 3&K Heroes (on hold)
    <!--quoteo(post=596628:date=Jun 18 2011, 05:09 PM:name=Xodras)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xodras @ Jun 18 2011, 05:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=596628">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->On the topic of Sonic's speed. I'm fairly sure he had some sort of ability for even more speed in his Sonic CD era. Prehaps applying Sonic 3's body onto these sprites maybe a feasible idea;

    <a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/687/unledpc.png/" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I will add some peelout abilities for the characters, yes; and I am thinking of actually using the same mechanics as the spindash (but pressing up instead of down): hold up and mash jump buttons to gather speed. I will not, however, use the Sonic CD images -- not untouched, at any rate -- because they suck horribly. I mean, where are the legs? In all sprites you have a red blur pasted on top of a crippled Sonic. If you have the red blur you should have a white blur for the socks and a blue blur for the legs. I am thinking of using (maybe slightly modified) the following sprites by Gardow (which are present in the latest MFS Ultimate Sonic sheet):
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    I am thinking of putting the arms back, like the "standard" peelout images. For Super Sonic, there isn't need for new sprites -- he is already flying. I would still need good Knuckles peelout graphics, while they are rather easy for Tails.
     
  20. MotorRoach

    MotorRoach

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    I can make you some Knuckles peel out sprites if you want. Do you plan to make him do the peel out just like Sonic is doing in those gifs?