Sonic Classic 2

Discussion in 'Fangaming Discussion' started by Hez, Jul 21, 2011.

  1. Can't download the new version where I'm at, I'm going to have to wait for Saturday. Wanted to ask, though. Does the new version fix the Extras menu so I can buy the unlockable stuff?
     
  2. Toothpick

    Toothpick

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    Xbox One controller user here. Is there a way to map it so Drop Dash is X and shield select is B? I tried to do it in the controller setup menu, but it didn't register the inputs of my controller.
     
  3. Hez

    Hez

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  4. saxman

    saxman

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    It has definitely come a long way. I'm actually surprised the beginning of the level has remained basically the same!

    Plenty of test functions going on. If you press 'O' or 'I' on the keyboard, some explosions occur where the mouse cursor is. If you press 'N', the hud disappears. 'Q', 'W', and 'E' all seem to toggle between player palettes, matching a number of familiar characters. 'V' and 'B' gives you Tails and Knuckles powerups respectively. Pressing '2' tries to open a file I guess? Holding 'S' when entering the level makes Sonic disappear with zero lives and all powerups showing on the side (perhaps intended to be a "debug" mode of sorts?) And finally, clicking with the left mouse button will place objects which are harmful to Sonic, though he can roll into them and destroy them from the sides, or spring off the top.

    If you create a "BG_Music" subdirectory and put a file called "01 Crystal Cove Zone.mp3" there, that will play as the BGM for the level.

    Also found the special stage which is fully functional apart from being unable to really "lose".

    Also found Super Sonic.

    If you keep pressing 'V' or 'B', you can keep the respective power-ups going. Then just fly or glide all the way to the end of the level where the end-of-act sequence occurs. After that, it just takes you back to the Sega logo, where you will be unable to actually start the level again (just takes you back to the Sega logo again).

    I like the idea of gaining character powerups (e.g. Sonic can fly like Tails), but at the same time it is a little odd looking, at least here.

    EDIT: Hah! I found dirty word in the Savestate file.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2021
  5. Sally Rose

    Sally Rose

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    Hay. Lightning has just struck my brain. Why not. In order to set your versions of sonic 1 and sonic 2 appart when / if your still doing them. Why not add in act 3/ pinch mode new bosses?? To give an incentive to play your versions. A sweet cool new featuer to make your spot heard in the crowd of hacks n ports!

    Edit

    Possibly also an encore mode for s1 n s2 where levels get funy new pallets and some funky fresh beats?? Just throwing ideas to help add vslue then just a straight up 1 for one port you know
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
  6. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

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    I'm going to be very open about my feelings/feedback here, so I ask you to keep an open mind here. The effort that's gone into this title is herculean and I recognize that, but I'm going to also be brutally honest.

    The Good:

    - The visuals, stage design, sprite work, and music are all very solid, I'd say on a level just slightly below a Mania type production. That's no small feat, and everyone involved should feel proud of that effort. The use of multiple soundtracks is a nice bonus.
    - I think your boss designs are fairly clever and well thought out. A few glitches aside, they are fun to play against and fair for the player. That's also a good feat and one even the best fangames rarely get right.

    The Bad:

    The click engine here is showing its age, relative to all the other benefits we have in the mod scenes for the retro engine. You really need more speed-runners to test and further refine these physics if at all possible, as there are numerous inconsistencies in collision detection and other problems that I feel the speedrunning community could help sort out for you. Lots of collision bugs that cause unnecessary difficulty and inconsistencies. Perhaps it's just a limitation of the engine, but it's a shame because if you sort these out, you could have a much, much stronger game. I doubt you'd be willing or perhaps even able (due to coding limitations) to port your assets into the the retro engine, and that's okay, but the closer you can get to refining some stuff, the better.

    The Ugly:
    - Tails assistant mechanics are completely broken. There are countless times when he is "flying" back to me after a death and he picks up Sonic by mistake. I have lost lives because of this glitch several times, including during some major boss fights. The ability to control him in all the other retro engine game and use him adds so much to exploration in those games, but here is is more of a hazard than a help, and that is a major problem.
    - While the special stage layouts are solid, clever, and I'd even say well designed for the most part, the physics are god awful, And I mean throw your controller at the screen, Sonic 4 Episode 1 did a better job than this, awful. I've fallen out of the stages box zones entirely, touching the R, up, and down blocks can range from overly sensitive (a single pixel hitting them activates them) to non-functional with no consistency at all. Literally none of the techniques used for mastering these stages from the Sonic 1 or (or hell, even S4E1) stages work here, and that is a huge, huge problem for stages that were designed based on physics, momentum, and object collision, yet have no real internal consistency within their physics at all. It all results in the worst case scenario where they player actually has very little proper control over their ability to finish these stages, and has to rely mostly on luck and a poorly implemented engine being generous, which is a big, big no-no for any game that dares to call itself "classic". In my honest opinion, either the special stage collision needs to be reprogrammed from scratch for far more consistent object collision (if that's even possible), or they need to be scrapped entirely as these click-based engines just aren't capable of properly recreating them. The end result here is just a poor and frustrating mess that takes your game from professional package back to amateur hour, and that is a shame for a package which is otherwise so well made.

    I hope you don't take the above criticism too personally, as I loved Classic 1 back in the day, and find this to be an overall solid successor, but I'm being harsh here because the game has an uncanny valley effect to it that's holding it back if you can just further refine it. Once again, get in touch with the speed-running community if possible and see if you can get them to thoroughly test and break your game until you can fix these numerous collision bugs. They will help you take this product from good to great, to amazing even if you do it right.

    If you can somehow fix or refine these issues, you'd have a product on par with stuff like Mania or SRB2, and I couldn't give it a much higher complement than that if you succeed.
     
  7. Hez

    Hez

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    How DARE YOU! This is an 81 HONDA!

    Jokes aside, all feedback is welcome! You make valid points. Not that I'm making excuses, but the engine is lacking because of a few reasons. First, if I had kept focusing on keeping up with the new-age engines, I'd had never gotten to the point where it is today. Second, when I started this a lot of those options were not available. It would have taken a ton of man-power to port the levels over to any other engine. Third, I'm one dude doing this by myself. I did outsource the music and near the end, I got a good chunk of help with a lot of art. But at the end of the day, I did 95 percent of all of this. I continue to do it. I'm not using it as an excuse by any means, but just throwing it out there so that others understand that I do have a life outside of this.

    With the engine talk out of the way, I do plan on making heavy revisions when I have time. Clickteam might be the final limitation engine wise. I don't expect it to be a 1:1 to something like Sonic 2/3, but I do want the experience to be enjoyable.

    Special Stages were designed in mind to try and get that feeling of wanting to throw your controller through the screen, but to also have that rush of relief and "Oh HELL YES FINALLY" feeling. I hadn't felt that way from special stages since Sonic 1/2 so I really wanted to get that to return. I may have over done it, but even playing them myself I felt infuriated but relieved when I got an emerald. If I get the 3d ones fixed, I will make an option to use them instead. Or, I can use them for the hyper emeralds.

    All feedback is taken into consideration, so please keep it coming!
     
  8. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

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    Appreciate your honest take on the feedback. I'm still impressed with the results in most ways, but as someone who did fangame dev work/beta testing back in the day, I also recognize a big trapping, the tendency to say "If I can beat this, it must be too easy!"

    To some extent, that is true and it's a hard balance to find. I'm not complaining about the layouts of your special stage, BTW. They are sometimes frustrating, but actually fair. The problem is that as someone who spends a lot of time speedrunning myself, I can tell that the flaws are entirely tied to a broken/inconsistent engine, and that if you could find ways to fix that, it would be much closer to the vision you want. Remember, many members in this community are the peak of skill compared to others who could end up playing this game. And sure, it should be aimed at this community to some extent, but not to the extreme that people who have 30+ years of experience can't very easily utilize those skills we've developed consistently. I am annoyed when a "flip" box in the stage throws me off, but I also acknowledge that as a legitimate and clever challenge, for example.

    You have so, so much good in this project. If there's anything you can do to fix it, I genuinely feel it will be so much better. I actually really loved Classic 1 back in the day.
     
  9. Hez

    Hez

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  10. saxman

    saxman

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    Very interesting changes. Many of the levels look very different. "Drill Base" is the biggest change of them all I think. Doesn't even feel like the same level as it's replacement in many respects.

    Also, thankfully the control is *much* better in 2021. It's a tad bit frustrating to get the character to go where I want them.

    And three different title screens! I assume some of those were earlier ones you tried out at various points in the past.

    The game is greatly improved over this 2017 version. It demonstrates just how much effort you've put into it. Some of the changes made are changes I think some people wouldn't have bothered with, but you were clearly holding yourself to a certain bar of achievement.
     
  11. Skeit

    Skeit

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    I think this SC2 prototype is much more like a real sequel to SC1 in 2012 in many aspects than the "real product" we've got in 2021.

    Didn't mean it better or worse.
     
  12. Jlook

    Jlook

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    Very interesting build. The red dots can be still placed everywhere with the mouse. Crystal Coves still has that same feel in terms of level design. Though I found the 2017 version of Rustic Ruins is less fun in my eyes. Still, interesting prototype.