Sonic Classic 2

Whoa, what's with the negativity? I think the flutter jump fits with the goofiness of Fang's character (you only have to look at Sonic Triple Trouble to see he's not meant to be taken seriously), and the gun mechanic looks really cool. Looking forward to playing as him

 

So you're saying that just because Fang is a goofy character that's not meant to be taken seriously, anything that is goofy automatically fits him? Sorry, but that's not how designing a character works, no matter how goofy you try to make it sound like. By that logic, you could make him summon a Daytona USA car into the stage, 'cause who cares, he's not meant to be taken seriously.

Acting like a helicopter would be kind of stretching the purpose of his tail, and would only work if he had a bigger tail or anything else, instead of just a long purple stick-- that and just disguising the flutter jump animation wouldn't make him any more unique to play as either.

So far, Scrouge McDuck type of gameplay has been the best ability replacement suggestion in this thread. It fits him because his tail serves to the sole purpose of acting like a spring and make him bounce off the floor, and that's evident in both games he appears in (STT and STF). I'm here hoping that the tail idea isn't a complete ripoff of Scrouge's cane, though, but something on that basis would still work pretty decently along some slight changes to it.

I'm also not that good with planning movesets, but I was thinking if he could charge his spring tail when he's in the floor (maybe in a spindash like fashion?), in a way that could launch him upward as a quite high jump-- to add more to that, he could perhaps jump on enemies after spring jumping, in case he still kept his tail twisted like a spring when landing. No, I'm not sure how well that would work, but it's just an idea.

I also wanted to talk about his aiming... it seems off that he doesn't even looks at the direction he's aiming, and pretty much just twists his arm up and down as if he was some robot. It's just weird, and could use some work.

And still, don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Fang being playable, given that it was an unexpected addition, and surprisingly good of a character choice at the same time... but so far, this is a purple cowboy Yoshi.

 

Can you shoot while fluttering? If so then for the shooting mechanism this makes it incredibly useful, could see him slowly descending while enemies try to hit you.

Still think we should allow for some humour in our unofficial and uncommon games and this made me smile and want to play his style.

 

Are you telling me that Fang's addition is literally meant to be a joke?

 

Is it a bad thing if he was?

And no I am not implying anything, just that one of the great things about making your own game of an existing IP is experimenting with things that you might not expect. I like the idea of the cross over between the mechanisms of other games and Sonic, in this case the Yoshi series.

If the goal was to make me want to pick up a controller and play his style of gameplay, then it worked. It is of course not to everyones liking, so what develops from this is down to Hez.

 

Your mindset is perfectly reasonable.
I mean this game already has character costumes instead of actual alternate playable characters. I don't see how Hez can't go wild with his ideas and add unconventional stuff into his game.

I think people's problem with Fang is that:
1) his playstyle is a Yoshi ripoff rather something completely new
2) he is Fang, an already more or less well defined character.

 

I do understand the concern with the Yoshi rip-offness but I think it provides a nice basis of a shooting mechanism that is tried and tested haha. Something that could be expanded up in interesting ways and worked into the Sonic-esq level design.

And yeah he has been established, but then when haven't we seen characters develop new moves. Big the Cat gameplay changed completely between Adventure and Heroes, Sonic obtained a double jump and run button, and those were official entries in the series. I just don't think people should judge harshly based on the official versus fan games - if the gameplay was broken and unfun then yes I would understand the lengthy complaints.

But meh, I am not anti tail bounce nor pro flutter jump. Whatever one provides a more interesting gameplay experience is surely the ultimate goal of any game.

 

You're forgetting what fanbase you're part of.

 

Oh yes! I do forget that if we are not replicating the feeling of the Japanese box art for Sonic 1 then it is all sacrilegious tripe that people are spending their free hours making for us. :P

...

I'm being facetious of course.

 

You mean like Sonic 4? Anyway, this thread sure got hostile quick. I see no reason for Fang not to have an expanded move set. He only has had 3 main appearances, but all of those were several years ago. Other characters have seen drastic changes to their move pool in the past, so why does this prevent Fang?

Though with this said, I'd like to stress that whatever move set that Fang ends up with actually flow well with the levels and gimmicks of the game. Let me make an example by comparing Sonic 3K to the Sonic Advance series.

In Sonic 3 & Knuckles, the three characters played differently enough to be broken down into Easy (Tails), Normal (Sonic), and Hard (Knuckles). Since Sonic and Tails have the same base stats, they both travel through the same route, but Tails flight allows him to back track on missed power ups or alternate routes that usually give the player something extra. Sonic can be seen as the default experience, with elemental shields allowing for a temporary special move, and a final exclusive level. Knuckles on the other hand has a tweaked jump height and the ability to break open new paths, allowing for his experience to feel vastly different, and with his layouts focusing on technical platforming over hazards combined with some different boss experiences, I would easily say to a new player, Knuckles can be seen as more difficult.

Now looking at the Advance series, there is little change in difficulty between the main cast with the difficulty being broken down to Very Easy (Cream), Easy (Tails), Normal (Knuckles), Slightly Harder (Sonic), and Hard/Team Chaotix (Amy). I list Cream as Very Easy as she can basically hit any enemy that is on screen with Cheese, but with the added mobility of Tails. On the other end of the scale I have Amy who is the hardest, and borders on gimmicky in the same way I view Team Chaotix in Heroes. Her lack of spin jump and spin dash makes enemies slightly harder to deal with. I think even Sega/Dimps noticed this as both these moves were given to her in Sonic Advance 2 (Though to say something good about her would be that her in air hammer attack allowed players to still attack in a similar manner, just making them do an extra action for the kill). Even with all of this said, all of the characters basically play the same. Baybe its just because I haven't played them in a while, but at no point do I remember going through any alternate paths. The only exception that I can think of is SA3 when you were hunting down Chao.

One more example I want to mention are the character hacks by E-122-Psi. Looking at Sally in Sonic 1, Sally has a weapon similar to how your idea to Fang weapons is. When she jumps she is vulnerable, and she can only kill by shooting. I feel this really dampens the flow of the levels, as the player has to shift down a gear and take the levels at a slower pace. Maybe most of us here can get through the game with little issue, but we are looking at the hack with our prior knowledge of the levels layouts. I would make the assumption that if a new Sonic players first experience was this hack, they might find the game frustrating with the controls, and get hit more by enemies in the same way we bash enemy placement in Sonic Rush or Sonic 4. Basically what I am saying is that it is hard to move fast and fluidly when a character has to either stop and shoot to kill an enemy, or try to make a mid air shot while moving toward the enemy which might end in damage towards you.

With all of this said, I'd like to make some suggestions. Instead of Fang being always exposed when he jumps, what if his first jump was in a ball with a height similar to Knuckles, with a double jump/flutter jump that brings him out of the ball, balancing being exposed for the extra move-ability. I don't really have any suggestion for his weapon, but do try to find a way to incorporate him in the story. Maybe have him reach a split path similar to Angel Island, where Sonic and Tails would be able to move upward, Knuckles able to break open a path, and Fang with a 3rd route that is opened up through shooting a switch object that can only be activated by him. Maybe even make his bullets bounce once to allow them into tighter spaces? Either way at the end of the day it is your project, and I'm sure you would not put out content that you didn't feel worked. I look forward to hearing more news in the future.

 

Considering Fang used vehicles and a gun in his official appearances, I think that the way Fang is now should be fine, just replace a couple animations. For instance, for Fang's flutter jump, have him either pull out a propeller or shoot downwards like a machine gun so the recoil keeps him aloft. If you want to keep the shooting mechanics where you can shoot at multiple angles without ripping off Yoshi's Island, since this is a PC fangame, you can always take advantage of the mouse and let us aim with that. Are we getting infinite ammo like Mega Man, or limited ammunition where we have to reload? Having to spend Rings to shoot with seems like it could be risky to abuse the gun, which is probably the intent, but also prevents you from being able to do too much with the gun mechanics itself. If we have poor aim or just took a hit and lost nearly all of our Rings, then we aren't going to be too happy to see a shooting puzzle that opens the path onward. Would it be a good idea if a normal attack against an enemy kills it and we can use the scrap as ammo? You could just make a Motobug generator in places where we need bullets to progress, and it would prevent players from just abusing long-range attacks.

 

Race the Doppelganger - Race a duplicate of yourself to the goal! Be the first and win!

Spin to Win - Don't come out of rolling! Jump and roll to the goal!

Also thought of a no jumping mode, but that might not be possible depending on layouts.

 

Do you mean ones to replace these? Because I think you have plenty of challenges already. Kinda going overboard if you ask me.

 

Mirror mode. Replay the levels, this time starting from the end and working backwards.

And then a two-way mode where you go from start to finish and start again.

Also, Hidden Goal, where the goal is hidden somewhere in the level, but it won't become active until you hit the switch at the end.

 

where the fuck is "find hidden big the cat"

 

Well, if they're going to be stage specific, I suggest doing some that are thematic to the stages.