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Sonic Classic 2

Discussion in 'Fangaming Discussion' started by Hez, Jul 21, 2011.

  1. Hez

    Hez

    Oldbie
    Yeah basically. You would virtually go through the dim paths, while the lit up ones would be passable.
     
  2. Hez

    Hez

    Oldbie
    Sawwy for the bump.

    [​IMG]
    I've been toying around with a new concept. This will be a new sub options menu where you choose which secrets to enable. Some will be unlocked by default, others will have to be unlocked. Basically, there's a shit ton of unlockable things in this game. Almost everything is customizable too once it's been unlocked. First, you have to unlock things in the levels by collecting red rings or some shit like that. Then, you'll come to this menu and you'll have to "buy" stuff with your score points. Now don't start bitching, because if you run through the game once you'll have an ass ton of points anyways. Anyone like this idea?
     
  3. Feanor

    Feanor

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    This is my first post so first of all hello and happy new year!

    This is one of the few projects I'm following on this forum, you're doing an impressing work Hez. You're really putting a lot of efforts and details into this and that's what makes a great game.

    About your last idea, yes I like it a lot and I think it will add a lot of replay value. One of the best things of my favourite fan game, Streets of Rage Remake v5, is the shop. To unlock everything you have to finish the game many times. So if you do something similar to that it will be awesome.
    I'm not so sure about this secret options menu itself though, I would have to see it in video but it doesn't look very esthetic nor practical. The shop of SORR is simple yet looks cool and you can easily see what each cheat/secret does. Here it looks like there only are some small icons, it doesn't look very user friendly.
     
  4. Tiller

    Tiller

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    But bitching is all we Sonic fans know how to do!

    Honestly its about sometime someone did something with the worthless points outside of awarding one ups and random continues out like candy. Stuff as much fun stuff as you can into it. It only adds to replayability.
     
  5. Deef

    Deef

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    Unlockables for the sake of surprising the player, cool.
    Unlockables for the sake of keeping the player playing when they wouldn't otherwise, not so cool. Just turns into farming.

    It's hard to argue that it's necessarily bad to add something when the alternative is to just not add it, but it's an approach to what motivates play that I'm not a fan of. Once the game becomes a list of things to achieve, it's like the designer forgets to push him or herself into creating genuine longevity via the game's core. If it doesn't have longevity in that aspect, then what replayability it does have is pretty much just busy work.

    Especially when we're talking about points as the key to unlocking things. Points; nothing more generic to farm. Instead of unlockables that respond to discovering new areas, breaking records, completing challenging bonus tasks, etc., using points as currency only encourages the player to replay the most profitable zone they find. You don't even have to argue whether that's good or bad to acknowledge that it's true. If a reward is being used as a motivating factor, then the player is being encouraged to take the path of least resistance to it. If we're talking points, that means farm them. Only way around it is to not let the reward be the player's biggest reason to play, but more of an afterthought.

    The flipside to this is that sometimes the busywork can bring the player into new heights of control and play, that they wouldn't have reached had the game stopped offering deliberate rewards. But I would say this applies more to skill-focussed games, like schmups, arcade fighters, and maybe sports. Although, time attacking is a part of a Sonic game where this could also be true.

    So I say provide rewards in a way that allows something else to be the player's biggest motivation to play, to avoid fake longevity and to promote bringing the player into a new level of skill and play.
    - Eg. NiGHTS. Rewards or not, the player wants to score attack. Score attacking in order to earn a reward is just more score attacking that the player wants to get better at anyway.
    - Eg. 1-on-1 fighter: Rewarding a difficult challenge. The player wants to know he can beat the challenge. The thought of getting a reward for beating it is secondary.



    /late night ramble
     
  6. Hez

    Hez

    Oldbie
    The unlock able things in the game aren't really anything more than aesthetics. For example, if you really hate my sprites and prefer sonic 2's, then find the level that has that as an unlockable thing, and get it. On the other hand, unlocking levels is instantaneous and does not require "purchase". I believe earlier in a snap shot I discussed how that is done. By basically finding secret areas in a level by exploiting shield combos or something.

    Now to the points part. I did make you have to spend score points for two reasons.

    1. The reason you stated earlier. They're insanely easy to get and I really hate games that make you replay levels over and over again.
    2. Score means virtually nothing, and now it can mean something, even if it barely matters.

    In all honesty, I wasn't going to make anything ridiculously expensive. If you really thing about it, you have a dick ton of points if you actually finish the game anyways. It's really nothing to worry about.
     
  7. The way I see it, people are going to eventually find a way to break the game. (Life farming at Launch Base Zone, for example.) If you use points, not only are they easy to get, but when somebody out there finds a way to break the game like mentioned, then it's not going to be an inconvenience.

    Also, if there's going to be missions like in the first game, and the score from those are added to the amount we can spend on unlockables, then we can be killing two birds with one stone. If the points earned, or a fraction of them (1/2 or 1/10 even) are kept even if the player loses the game or fails on a mission, then it would make getting stuck on a particularly difficult section of the game less frustrating as we're still accomplishing something even if we're not making much for progress.

    Speaking of missions, something just occurred to me. (I was about to click the "post" button when this thought came to mind) If there are missions for each level, will there be any for unlockable levels as well? If we unlock a level from Sonic Classic or Sonic 1, will there still be missions such as "kill all the enemies" or "finish within a set time"? What about hidden secrets in the unlockable levels themselves, like what we had to search for to unlock them in the first place? I'm not saying every unlockable level should have levels to unlock inside of them, but if you can find smaller secrets in the same way, that would be really neat as well, and give us more incentive to explore levels that we've already seen and know by heart. I know that some of the hacks on this site that added things to the original levels taught me of some things about them that I hadn't known about before.
     
  8. Hez

    Hez

    Oldbie
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCb0u9HF5EQ

    Stuck with the blue for now. Better to see it in action. probably the last preview of a level before release.
     
  9. jasonchrist

    jasonchrist

    Give Us A Wank Misfit
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    Blue in action looks a little cold to me for a casino level, but it is an awesome level all the same.
     
  10. TheKazeblade

    TheKazeblade

    "Our Life is More than a Side-Effect" Member
    I really do love the melody to the Zone's music; but something about it just doesn't sit right with me. It still feels like it's been significantly slowed down from something faster, probably because of how slow the percussion is. I still feel like that could be better.

    Also, blue looks great! I really dig it :)
     
  11. 360

    360

    Light Vision Overdrive Oldbie
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    I'm with Jason. A little cold. The graphical change and upgrade from what you initially had is substantial. The level looks much better now. It may however need some colour tweaking before being finalised. Awesome work though Hez. It sometimes blinds me how you can work so persistently and so rapidly in developing content like this. I used to spend hours and hours and literally end up with a fraction of the level being done. Or springs finally working. The fact that you can produce full accurate games with original on-par-with-the-originals level art in such a short frame of time is inspiring. I look forward to playing this. Like when we were getting closer to the release of Classic 1. Question. When you say "this is the final preview before release" does that mean the release is not that far away? I absolutely do not want to push you in the slightest given that you've posted before about how you felt Classic 1's release was rushed and didn't want to repeat the same mistake again. I feel a tad guilty about that because I have some memories of repeatedly posting in the Classic 1 thread prodding you to release the game. I will not be doing that again.

    Patience is a virtue. Take as much time as you need. Kudos on the work you've done so far. It looks stellar.
     
  12. LordOfSquad

    LordOfSquad

    bobs over baghdad Member
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    making cool music no one gives a shit about
    Loving the Coconuts badnik there. Looks like a really neat casino level.
     
  13. jasonchrist

    jasonchrist

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    Seconded re: the rushing.

    You've one of the only 3 people in the world who has actually made a full, classic style fangame. Because of this we KNOW Classic 2 will see the light of day (Unlike most other promising fan games I.e. Nexus). Therefore I think you've earned all the time you need.
     
  14. Hez

    Hez

    Oldbie
    Well, basically, I really have nothing else to show is what I mean't by that. All the levels besides the final levels have been shown. If I show too much, it ruins the surprise. I just like to give a taste of what I have. I may show a preview of just one of the extra levels included for sonic 1 or 2, but if I showed you all of them it would ruin the surprise. I may also release a short video of how the unlockables work.

    And who here wants to see gameplay of levels they've played hundreds of times (Sonic 1/2 I'm referring to). You already know they're included. It's going to still be at least another 6 months before release, and I just don't have much more to show that anyone doesn't already know about. If I quickly add a new feature in (like online or something) then yes, Ill release a video. But other than that, it just might be the occasional "You guys want Sonic 2 ring sprites to be an option?".

    EDIT:

    and since you've forced me to do this, here is act 2 of Circus City's music. I am thinking about using Karl's original act 2 for act 1, and then his second act 2 for...well...act 2.

    Original

    and the slightly modified second

    might have to open them from the site instead of here.
     
  15. Hez

    Hez

    Oldbie
    [​IMG]

    Revamped Secrets Menu, now more user friendly. Activate by pressing whatever you chose to be your C button,default back by pressing B. Exit by A. Nothing costs anything. Better?

    Also, would really like feed back on the previous post as I don't know what you guys want for that levels music.

    EDIT: I see that there's some repeated text in the second screenie...its fixed.
     
  16. TheInvisibleSun

    TheInvisibleSun

    OVER THE TOP TECHNO-BLAST Member
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    The Water
    Lovin' the new secrets menu! The new dark checkered background and red banner design, is not only more visually readable, but also evokes a more 'Classic' style, personally. As for the Circus City tracks, I think the rearranged version you have above (Original Act 2 for Act 1, and then the new Act 2) works much better for the stage's pace. However, one thing I would change about the new Act 1, is to eliminate the intro portion (I believe its the first 8 beats of the track). This would enhance the sense of transition between Acts 1 and 2, as well as better set them apart. Melodically, I really love the sort of 'Latin-American' feel I get from the pace and melody of the tracks (has a feel similar to Aquatic Ruin).
     
  17. dsrb

    dsrb

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    Have you dropped the idea of using points to earn secrets? I kinda liked your logic for that: how, otherwise, Score is pretty meaningless.
     
  18. jasonchrist

    jasonchrist

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    Sonic 1 sprites rule!
     
  19. Thousand Pancake

    Thousand Pancake

    Being a food you put milk on and then eat in the m Member
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    "This item is currently this item is currently locked." :v:
     
  20. Hez

    Hez

    Oldbie
    Well, I'm running into issues involving bosses. Primarily the older ones. See, Sonic Classic, Sonic 1, and Sonic 2 were all designed for a resolution of 320 X 224. Sonic Classic 1 was easily converted, as most of the bosses weren't heavenly constricted by this. However, as I've been finalizing Sonic 1, I've found this to be a huge problem. Here is an example of one of the ways I've fixed this issue.

    [​IMG]

    As you can see, pillars similar to ARZ pop up. When the boss is defeated, Robotic runs into the right side, destroying them.

    [​IMG]

    For others, I've simply moved some objects around, or changed robotniks movement. In GHZ, he has the same movement, but the platforms are further across. This DOES change the game play a bit, but it's all I can really do. Labyrinth zone will be unaffected, but I am worried about Marble Zone and Star Light zone. Barriors will fix the Final Boss in Sonic 1 as well.