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Sonic CD's Mysterious Cut R2 Level Discussion - Post Origins Edition

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by HEDGESMFG, Jul 12, 2022.

  1. _Sidle


    Ninja'd while I was doing my morning routine :flunked: But yes, a quick filtered search brought up that entry on by Mecha Sally (I presume based on the site url, and the fact there's an oldbie with that name)
    To recap-- pre-2001 according to Google, an unknown someone posted a list of CD beta level names somewhere unknown. Jan Abaza (founder of Area 51, so this likely comes from there) had shared this list and speculated that Dust Hill was a beta name for QQ... then the list and speculation was posted to by Mecha Sally, lumped together in the Sonic 2 Secret Stuff article. ​
    Seems like Dust Hill was thrown into an unrelated existing CD beta level name list, from an unknown source (likely Area 51). Do we have any way to search further than that for an original source?
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  2. This does remind me of that one time where People thought DHZ and QQZ were related...

    Guess that was true afterall.

    In the way that they are both cave levels and not scrapped desert levels.
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  3. Forte


    I speak better after three beers Member
    Wait, so what's the status of the Angel Statue? I thought someone confirmed it was not R2 related in any way?

    Also, I wonder why they named the lake "Never Lake". Maybe it's related to that Sonic 1 Tokyo ToyShow beta Neverseen/Nevergreen sign? Coincidence probably.
  4. nineko


    I am the Holy Cat Tech Member
    Maybe it's a reference to Neverland? Do we know how big Peter Pan is in Japan?
  5. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    Neverland from Peter Pan is known everywhere. It's just another classic reference, just like how Sonic is inspired by cartoons from the 1940s.
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  6. CaseyAH_


    human incarnation of Palmtree Panic 'P' Mix Member
    It was already brought up earlier in this thread that the secret angel room was confirmed not to be related to R2. This conversation is beginning to become cyclical.

    (edit: formatting fixed)
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2022
  7. Sparks


    Sondro Gomez / Kyle & Lucy
    Probably a good idea if possible to have additional information as it comes along be added to the OP as it comes along (and the wiki if not there already :V).


    I'll edit it a bit later when there's some time.
  9. saxman


    Oldbie Tech Member
    On the early level names:

    I do remember it being discussed on Area 51 (me being a frequent poster there). However, I thought it was stated that it came from a magazine. But maybe it didn't after all. But those names are what I remember.

    Dust Hill... geeze. It's amazing how much we got wrong. Including myself I might add, which, if you look really hard through your web searches, you'll come across an image detailing a theory of mine on camera positioning that predates our awareness that some screenshots are mock ups. Just plain wrong!

    Anyway, the Final Fever bit I'm remembering can be found here:
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  10. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

    no reverse gear Wiki Sysop
    Northumberland, UK
    steamboat wiki
    I imagine it's a weird translation, the idea that it's "impossible" for a small planet to appear there for a short period of time.
  11. Xilla


    I remember the only real "evidence" for QQ originally being DHZ was that there's a small section that supposedly "matched" the area in the mockup. That and every fangame dev under the sun using QQ Present's music for their DHZ recreations! :V
  12. Oh, I was a regular across various iterations of Area 51. Definitely fun to reminisce. Sad that any archives are unavailable right now. The Final Fever bit is interesting in the magazine article you bring up. The wiki here, two images above the R2 Concept Art states:

    "The familiar mountain with Eggman's face etched in. Described by Hoshino as being the background to the final stage of the game."

    I really feel it's another mystery we should try and pose a question on in the future.
    Yeah. I remember so many random fan recreations. Even Jan Abaza did one I think back then. Now we have Sonic 2 Long Version and recently Sonic 2: The Secret Zones that make everything feel finally complete. Then. Of Course if Dessert Dazzle had made it in Everything would have come full circle.
  13. Pie Eyed Piper

    Pie Eyed Piper

    I remember YarHarHar's Dust Hill demo was guilty of doing just that, too, and it had a neat speed up tune for the time. If my memory isn't unreliable I remember it being one of the earliest fan demos with accurate (or close to) physics. It was so cool to me that fans could do that that I've been following the scene ever since.

    It's funny that when saxman brought up "Star Dust Zone" that I knew I saw it before, but couldn't at all recall when, where or how. Seeing that Angelfire site though brought back some memories. In a way I'm almost glad it's still up. Jan Abaza's Area 51 is still up as well, and it goes over R2. I don't think there's anything new to gain from it outside of an perspective from "back in the day", but it refreshes my memory on how old the Techno Power Mix theory went back.

    There is one thing that I think is interesting at the bottom of the article, though:
    Aside from the rough Time Attack screen from the 0.02 prototype, was there ever any indication of Time Attack menu items being shifted around in one of the other prototypes? R2 was certainly gone by 510, but still.
  14. saxman


    Oldbie Tech Member
    YarHarHar indeed was the first to create convincing Sonic 360° physics. I think I was trying to help him with that at the time, but he was many steps ahead of me and blew me away! It was a big deal.

    Regarding the selection screen, you can see where only the first two acts of PP are listed at the top. After the three stubs, it goes into CC 1-3, and *then* PP act 3. If I recall correctly, 0.02 only has two acts of PP. So this may be an instance of them adding levels as they were finished (at least initially). I'm skeptical of the idea they had a placeholder for R2.
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  15. Xilla


    If anyone wants to try out Yarharhar's Dust Hill demo, it be here. I remember another demo of "Demo Tubes Zone" too (although that's been lost to time). It was part of a bigger project called Sonic 2 Robotnik's Revenge which aimed to recreate all the "lost" Zones plus a few new ones.

    Stopped development in early 2001 and then Taxman popped up with his Retro Sonic demo very shortly afterwards IIRC.
  16. Found a link to the old project.

    Of course even using the way back machine I wasn't able to pull up any of Yarharhar's old AOL there to see if there might be any other old projects left. Didn't find any downloadable copy of the Casino Night bit mentioned. Still going to search through some old places to see if I dig anything up. Or find where my old links zip file is if might have any leads somewhere.

    Though I found a site from 99 showing off what is a similar or related project?
    I feel like I remember all of this.
  17. MasterDreamcaster


    Running Up That Green Hill Member
    Ladies and gentlemen, I have good news for you!
    We don't have to call that level "R2" anymore! It's name: "Dubious Depths"!
    Oh, Taxman wanted to include another level with abbreviation DD: Desert Dazzle.
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  18. Nik Pi

    Nik Pi

    Sonic 2: Archives
    You are my hero, dude! Thanks for info!
    Still wait for fan romhack with restoration of this level :p
  19. BlackHole


    You're going to need MORE than help. Member
    Dubious Depths... I like it.
  20. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

    That name makes it sound like a water level. Couldn't it have been an early name for Tidal Tempest and Ohshima is misremembering?