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Sonic CD's Mysterious Cut R2 Level Discussion - Post Origins Edition

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by HEDGESMFG, Jul 12, 2022.

  1. MasterDreamcaster

    MasterDreamcaster

    Running Up That Green Hill Member
    Speaking of Labyrinth...
    Its early background made it clear that Labyrinth is a dungeon.
    The level has robots looking similar to ones from Dubious Depths. And Aquatic Ruin.
    It is no secret that Sonic 2 and CD share some ideas: metal version of the hedgehog, time travel (originally planned for 2), Eggman on a vehicle with spiky thing in front of it (boss of Ridicule Root and boss of Emerald Hill)...
     

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  2. Forte

    Forte

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    That's why I think there is a connection, maybe not between CD and 2nd game, but definitely between Labyrinth and R2.
     
  3. Blastfrog

    Blastfrog

    See ya starside. Member
    No, it was clearly a cavern in the prototype.

    [​IMG]

    This has absolutely nothing to do with Sonic, let alone researching Sonic CD's development. Not trying to backseat mod, but could you please stop veering far off-topic? It's getting tiresome.
     
  4. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    Well there is in the sense that Yasushi Yamaguchi worked on both* ;)

    Sonic 2 didn't know what it was doing with its levels until maybe... August? September 1992? Sonic CD seems to have a good idea of what it was going to be by the summer - there will have been a lead in for the intro/outro animations. I think it's more of a case that there's only so many ways you can draw a cave.


    Though that is a question worth asking, because Sonic CD has a spindash. That smells of a "Sonic 2 has one, so you have to too" situation (and they didn't fully understand the mechanics, hence why it plays differently).


    *and that's another one - Yamaguchi was lead artist on Sonic 2, so you'd expect his special stage contributions to occur after development on that game wrapped. So who made the original rotating maze-like one?
     
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  5. Blastfrog

    Blastfrog

    See ya starside. Member
    Actually, that reminds me. Sonic CD did not originally have alliterative names. We all know about "Salad Plains" being the name for Palmtree Panic, and IIRC one of the other devs said that "Crazy Toybox" or something like that was the original name for Wacky Workbench.

    Seems rather inconsistent with "Ridicule Root" and "Dubious Depths" being alliterative, if none of the other level names originally were.
     
  6. Fadaway

    Fadaway

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    For what it's worth, Sonic appears to be running along the top at first and goes around a small loop before going downward. It may not be intended as a tube. When Sonic goes downward, it could be a tactic similar to that big ramp in PPZ where Sonic is still “on top” of this structure and goes down while his head is facing the camera and feet away (probably a simpler way to word this). I'm inclined to believe it's a perspective thing.
     

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    Last edited: Mar 10, 2023
  7. Fadaway

    Fadaway

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    Also, to add to that last post I made concerning that concept art image, there appears to be another looping path underneath. There is also a possible waterline present, but difficult to determine..
     

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  8. saxman

    saxman

    Oldbie Tech Member
    Honestly, it reminds me of Stardust Speedway during the ending sequence with what looks like a flat track with curves and loops. Part of the photo looks like it depicts what the side of that track would look like. And the part that's in blue looks like it has signage that you walk under.

    But who knows. I could be way off. But I do see some Japanese near the part where Sonic is going straight down. Anyone able to make out what it could possibly say?
     
  9. Pengi

    Pengi

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    Regarding Sonic 1 on Mega-CD, there's a design for a Sonic the Hedgehog Mega-CD disc (based on the JP Sonic 1 Mega Drive box) here: http://web.archive.org/web/19970217175440/http://www.sega.co.jp/nights/sonic/sonium/debut.html

    DeepL translation:

     
  10. I personally can’t tell from that image. I even sent it to a friend in Japan and he can’t make it out either, but I didn’t really explain anything beyond, “Can you see what this says?”

    So maybe someone here who’s better at Japanese than me but also knows the context would be able to make a more informed guess.
     
  11. David The Lurker

    David The Lurker

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    I am going to frontseat mod here.

    I understand your excitement talking about Sonic the Hedgehog as a whole, but when you go off talking about Sonic 2 concept art, or even just talking about comparisons between Sonic and other franchises, it is coming out of left field and is way off topic. When that happens, it can lead to threads becoming derailed and abandoned. This is a thread about R2, what it may or may not have been, and how it exists in the greater context of Sonic CD's development. "Madness Mountain" has nothing to do with that. Strider has nothing to do with that. There are other threads in which other aspects of Sonic the Hedgehog can be discussed.
     
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  12. OKei

    OKei

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    I hope that this would be of some use...

    E714zQoVoAAakaD.jpg

    So a while ago, I found that Sonic CD (not as CD Sonic, but just "Sonic The Hedgehog CD" in the katakana form) was first made an entry in the schedule of upcoming games on the Sept. 25th 1992 issue of Weekly Famitsu. Issue 197. Page 146. Under the category of undecided release dates. https://archive.org/details/weekly-famitsu-no.-197-september-25th-1992-600DPI/Weekly Famitsu - No. 197 September 25th 1992/page/146/mode/2up

    E34j4g9VoAElbkN.png

    The same section in later issues showed that indeed Sonic CD was a March 1993 game at one point (this issue was published one month before 0.02 proto's unveiling at the Yuusei Sega event in 12/93).

    (Famitsu DMCA'd the entire archive on the internet archive so I can't link you guys to the exact functioning page, unfortunately.)

    This would be supported by the April 1993 issue of Beep MegaDrive April 1993 that explictedly confirms that Sonic CD was delayed.

    ScreenShot_20191030234810.png

    In an earlier edition of Beep Magazine, circa October 1992, pg. 18. On the New Soft Section, "CD Sonic" is actually referred to its final name. Though I'm inclined to wonder if this is likely a typo, because above the listing is an editing error for something else.

    All of this is to say, that if any media had existed before it's December 1992 unveiling, aside from the Summer 1992 catalog with the two proto pictures in it, then perhaps some promotional material was provided to the Japanese press in between the time of that booklet's publication and it's eventual formal announcement. As it was proven with Sonic 2 here earlier, Sega was rather loose with giving/teasing the press material of games back then.

    Pardon me if this post reads rather clunky, I'm typing this on my phone and I hate doing that for forums like these.
     
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  13. GoldeMan

    GoldeMan

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    This is a good find! Very informative. So if I am understanding you correctly, Sonic CD was first given a release date (or more added to a list of coming soon released) outside of a SEGA advertisement in Sept 92 with a proper release date announced shortly before 0.02. It is possible that between these events more information could have been provided that we have no archived yet due to cultural barriers (most interested not living in Japan or knowing Japanese), DMCA or other wacky hijinks? I'd be surprised if there isn't anything else between the Summer catalog appearance and the 12/92 Playable demo since that seems to be quite a decent sized gap for a game that was supposed to be coming out that following March and for their new yet lucrative franchise. Then again I didn't really grow up at the time so I'm not sure what a decent advertise-to-release timeframe would be for a 90s platformer.

    Also I assume it was delayed due to Quality Control but it really makes you wonder how far along / behind schedule it was if by May it still wasn't anywhere near complete while it was supposed to be released in March.

    I think it is interesting, at least, that of the proto screenshots that we have, disregarding the "Bonus Stage" (Sonic 1 SpStage) and the Final Special Stages the only images that we seem to have are of the first three levels (PP. CC. TT.) without R2, and even then relatively few screenshots regardless.

    Also I thought the post read well!
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2023
  14. Cooljerk

    Cooljerk

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    I'm nearly certain that image of Tails in Sonic CD was not created specifically for Sonic CD. Mainly because it's apparently part of a series of pictures that have popped up elsewhere over time, specifically found in the Sega Saturn SDK (although Sega's SDKs tend to include Sonic art from all over, like the Dreamcast SDK's bump mapping section featuring art from Sonic Jam):

    [​IMG]

    EDIT: Also note the Emerald Hill Zone tree in the corner of this second pic from the Judy Totoya Tails pics. pretty interesting that a piece of art that seems to have ties to Sonic 2 found its way into Sonic CD.

    re: the discussion about asking the connection between Sonic 2 and Sonic CD -- please please please do not forget the Game Gear/Master System title when asking questions. DRX once mentioned that it was likely Sonic 1 GG and the earlier Sonic 1 prototypes likely stemmed from super early meetings where only broad concepts were pinned down, before each title went into separate directions. I've always maintained thats what I thought Sonic 2 (MD and GG) and Sonic CD were. All originally, at one point, the same project in the most vague, conceptual terms (time travel, built off sonic 1, some sort of character kidnapped who needed to be saved, "robot sonic," using You Can Do Anything, etc) which then branched wildly as they were iterated. However, if you're looking for connections between Sonic 2 and Sonic CD, I feel the SMS/GG title has more connections than the Genesis title.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2023
  15. Cooljerk

    Cooljerk

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    One thing about the R2 ending animation that I never noticed before:

    [​IMG]

    The stone blocks at the top of the pic that are to the left and right of where Sonic runs, I always thought those were brick walls and sonic was running through a tight corridor. however, looking at the picture closely, it now appears those are floating blocks that are above the scene, basically close to the camera in the air, and the area Sonic is running through is more wide open. The reason I noticed this is because I just noticed those blocks have green vines or mold or something hanging off their bottom, which wouldn't be possible if they were on the floor. In fact, the second block on the right seems to have a shadow under it. In other words, that seems to be more explicitly being placed underground than I have always realized.
     
  16. DarkVDee

    DarkVDee

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    Oh. This made me wonder if those floating blocks ideas were use for Tidal Tempest [PAST] and possibly maybe the floating block gimmick was use for Quartz Quadrant were like old ideas for R2 before scrapping them : O

     
  17. TomGyroid

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    This probably isn't helpful, but I've recently thought the Sonic the Hedgehog Level Creator's unique level could maybe partially pass for the aesthetics of Dubious Depths. Probably doesn't mean much, tho.
     
  18. synchronizer

    synchronizer

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    Quartz Quadrant Past has vines and an outside/inside area. :V
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Once again, who knows what tiny bits and pieces from R2, if they existed, might've been pasted into other levels to make them prettier?
     
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  19. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

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    The inside + outside lake area is planned in that Little Planet map from March '92. Even the volcanoes at the start of Tidal Tempest 1 are too.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Hez

    Hez

    Oldbie
    it makes me angry how likely this could be. It probably isn't, but it really matches the SCD style and also matches up with the comments as to why it was removed (asthetically not really pleasing etc.)