Sonic CD's Mysterious Cut R2 Level Discussion - Post Origins Edition

I was talking specifically about the video, I don't doubt that a port of Sonic 1 for the Mega CD existed in some form.

 

Wasn't Sonic CD originally intended for a spring 1993 release, if the ROM header in various old builds are to be believed?

 

Prodding at the "Sonic CD and Sonic 2 are both sequels" bit, IMO Sonic CD not having anything to do with Sonic 2 is the most plausible one based solely on how the Spin Dash behaves alone they both handle the same movement mechanic so differently that they can only be sanely explained by working on it completely separately. That, and the drastic differences in art direction and level design philosophy. Sonic CD doesn't feel like "Sonic 1.5" or "JP Sonic 2", it feels like a spinoff, if we actually got good spinoffs of Sonic at that time.

That said, I would 100% buy Sonic CD starting out as a Sonic 1 port. its original name was CD Sonic, a lot of the same tropes are reused etc.

An aside here, Sonic 1 CD port -> Sonic CD (completely original game) is not even unprecedented. Zelda somehow managed to have this happen twice with the same developers - Link's Awakening was originally a Link to the Past GB port and Oracle of Seasons has a lot of its stuff taken from a scrapped Zelda 1 GB port.

 

I know its probably not too important in the grand scheme but that's a really interesting theory behind the original "CD Sonic" name as I can easily see it meaning more "CD (Version of) Sonic (1)" in a blunt way. I'm definitely in the camp of Sonic CD itself being originally a Sonic 1 port but somewhere along the way, probably very early on during the brainstorming stage of modifications and tweaks, they came up with an idea for Sonic CD and Sega was like "Sure that's a better idea" or something to that effect. A Sonic 1 port that spiraled wonderfully out of control and became an entirely different beast.

 

Interesting. So we have a commercial and a disc, but no info if these are the real deal. For all we know it could be real or just some promotional materials...

I'm in the camp that thinks CD Sonic was intended to be an extended port of StH, bit we still need a confirmation from the Devs, or better - a working prototype. Maybe there is a chance, that this Mega-CD disc was dumped by someone, somewhere...

 

I remember I read somewhere, that BG in this demo of Marble on CD has some differences from SMD version.
If it's true, and BG REALLY at least a bit different from normal bg, we have a little chance, that SCD Sonic really exists.

 

I notice different things that look alike – just like in that song from Sonic OVA.
One of those things is how early Hydro City, Act 1 looks similar to Dubious Depths.

Also, there is a Rainbow Waterfall Concept Art. Angel Island, Act 2 has a big waterfall. And a bridge. And palmtrees... Look at this panic:

Then Sonic falls into dubious depths of Hydro City, where (in prototype version) you can see some ridicule roots (plants?).

Early background reminds me of ending animation's version of Round 2, even colours are similar.

Oh, there are also a lot of fans in Hydro City, just like in R2 | 2R in Little Planet Map Art from Sonic Origins.
And Hydro City is Round 2 in Sonic 3, while Round 1 (Angel Island) looks like:

Please note – I'm not saying: "Sonic 3 reuses unused ideas from Sonic CD" or "waterfall and bridge in Angel Island, Act 2 are taken directly from CD concept art and underground stage Hydro City is dungeon stage Dubious Depths" – I just write about similarities.
There is even a topic about them. It's called "Sonic CD, 3, 3D – Similarities".

 

I can easily believe that was the case - there is of course the suggestion that many of Sega's developers were still not really accustomed to making games on CDs yet when the Mega CD was launching in Japan, and the fact that it took several years for first-party titles like Sonic CD to turn up is supposed to have angered Hayao Nakayama somewhat.

I imagine this is also partly why the idea of upgraded versions of 1 or 2 was thrown around - why waste even more time creating an original game?

 

Seeing this brought up again reminds me how much info gets lost in the void even when it was answered years ago.

This had text describing it on whatever site it was on again, Sonic Team's old site? And it specifically said it was "the only one in the world" that was just made as a test. IIRC they didn't outright say there's no game on it, but the implication was heavily "this was just a graphics design test just to see what it would look like."

Just to put to rest any further speculation on that.

 

Let's stop to talk about Sonic 1 CD, and continue to talk about deleted zone, that hasn't any content, that wasn't explained here

 

We have this document from March 12th '92 ("H4"/"平成 4" is the JP name for 1992) with all the zones laid out. They were already set on little planet and the time travel aspect was already planned.


The game couldn't be and enhanced version of Sonic 1 if the original plan had time travel and the zones were set on a different place (not on an island). Just so we can establish a timeline, CD Sonic v0.02 is dated December 4th, nine months after the Little Planet map was made.

 

Why everybody thinks that v0.02 it's earlier proto, that exists?
IT'S. JUST. DEMO. FOR. PUBLIC. SHOW.
Stop talk about v0.02 like about inside build, that has ALL content prepared for that time period.

 

Because it is a prototype.

 

Because we have more prototypes down the line to compare. We know that in the May 10th 1993 proto the only zones that looked more or less final were R1 and R3.
R4 onwards had a lot of palette problems, collision issues, extreme slowdown and mostly unfinished layouts.

So if the May 10th proto looked like that, the December build probably didn't have much more hidden behind the scenes.

We know there's a "Sonic CD v0.01", not made for the Yuusei event, that booted straight to this unused screen:



If you take a closer look at the Level Select present on the May 10th prototype you'll notice they listed 1-3-C and 1-3-D after R3. It's very plausible knowing what we know that they really only had R1 and R3, without their boss acts, implemented in previous builds.

 

How do we know that? Leftover data from v0.02?

 

The more we learn, the more I think that R2 was never implemented as a zone into a build of the game, seeing as they worked on R1 (Palmtree Panic) and jumped to R3 (Collision Chaos). There's always the possibility of finding leftover assets, but I am now thinking that they cut the zone out right at the beginning of active development, probably after realizing that the game may have been too big to contain in a CD, and needed to cut something out, so they chose the level they deemed the worst. R2 just happened to be that level.

My guess is by maybe in-between v0.01 and v0.02, they had probably composed at least all of Palmtree Panic's time zones, R2(Dubious Depths)'s Present Theme, and Collision Chaos' Present theme. In v0.02, all of Palmtree Panic's non-boss acts are complete-able, and Collision Chaos had either been worked on but removed for the Yuusei build, or had just started work on by that point.

If they hadn't cut the zone out by that point in time, wouldn't they have started working on it in place of R3?

Personally, if it is the case that it had never been implemented, that would be disappointing, but it makes sense with the current info that we have.

One thing that is strange, is the fact that if R2 was never in the game, why have Collision Chaos in R3's slot? Also, why does the Time Attack screen in v0.02 have R2 listed? Did whoever who worked on the screen not get the memo, or was there still plans to work on R2 at that point? The zone had to have been cut relatively early for only a Present theme to be completed.