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Sonic CD's Mysterious Cut R2 Level Discussion - Post Origins Edition

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by HEDGESMFG, Jul 12, 2022.

  1. YuTwo

    YuTwo

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    You bring up a good point with this. The past version of Wacky Workbench is in a rocky canyon where you traverse the factory while it is under construction. Quartz Quadrant and Wacky Workbench were also the only two zones not based on any of the previous zones that were in Sonic 1 so Wacky Workbench possibly could have reused some assets from R2 once it was scrapped and they were working on that zone.
    That mockup looks so beautiful. I would have loved to have seen those rainbow waterfalls used in the actual game. I'm no expert at programming but maybe it was actually tricky to implement this into the actual game and it was only left as a concept.

    Speaking of which, according to @Black Squirrel the Knuckles Chaotix zone Botanic Base has rainbow waterfalls when it is at nighttime:
    https://forums.sonicretro.org/index...-of-other-knowledge.8815/page-382#post-976085
    They only provide a picture of it though. I would have much preferred seeing a video or GIF of it in action just to see how it actually looks like. I'm assuming it only cycles through one color at a time. I don't have a ROM of Chaotix at the moment and I don't really feel like going through Chaotix at all in the first place so I can't verify this right now.
     
  2. Linkabel

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    I know this might look down upon. But would it not be a good idea to ask Eguchi what that particular area in the animation is supposed to be.

    I doubt he knows why it was dropped from the game/what game during the development.

    But at least he might be able to say it was ruins or whatever it was supposed to be.
     
  3. Nik Pi

    Nik Pi

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    Was a great idea to make a thread about R2!
    Interesting, what the name of this level?
    We had a next fan-names:
    • Relic Ruins (most used)
    • Radical Ruins
    • Radiant Ruins
    • Mercury Mine (was in that old hoax :))
    • Tabasco Ruins
    I have a question:
    That Little Planet theme, it was R2, right? But.. from which time period? Birdies sounds like a "G" remix, but, maybe someone from developers said something another?

    Also, with this SCD disasm, I want to belive, we will make something like "CD Sonic delta", lol.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2022
  4. biggestsonicfan

    biggestsonicfan

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    Are the Sonic Wikia hotlinked images not working in this thread or is it just me?
     
  5. Childish

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    The images aren't loading for me either, although I am using my iPhone 4S.
     
  6. Plorpus

    Plorpus

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    The track is from the present, according to a reply to the tweet in the OP.
     
  7. Nik Pi

    Nik Pi

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    Oh, really? Strange... it doesn't sound like present, lol
    Interesting, how sounds good future music :tinfoil:
     
  8. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    Yes, I just checked and it uses a cycling palette that covers all colors. Although in this case, there are some kind of neon lights in the background that change colors (they use the same cyclic palette). I think the idea is that their light is what causes the waterfalls' color changes. So it makes more sense for Botanic Base to use a rainbow cycling palette for the waterfalls than it makes for R2.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2022
  9. Forte

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    What if the rainbow waterfalls were supposed to present technological leap between Mega CD and Mega Drive? But then, if waterfalls were such a big deal, I suppose we would get them in outro animation...

    Anyway, I agree that the statue and bricks are probably a leftover from R2.
    Isn't there also a Robotnik statue somewhere? Or was it added in the CD remaster/remake?
     
  10. Billy

    Billy

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    It's in the same exact location, but in the bad future. Only Wacky Workbench art in the area though:
    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Palas

    Palas

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    Still, you can notice how extrinsic the Robotnik statue is to the stage. It stands out a lot due to its the brighter palette and how full of reflections it is compared to the rather subdued background. You can almost hear the conversation they had. "Right, we've added the R2 statue to WW past. How about the rest?" "Oh. Shit. Right. What if we just draw a Robotnik statue that spews bombs instead of rings?" "lol that'll do it"
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2022
  12. McAleeCh

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    Honestly, if the angel statue was indeed drawn for R2 originally it's completely possible the Robotnik statue was also drawn for the Bad Future of that stage. They could have had a similar function, or could have been intended as simple stage decoration (angel statues decorating the stage in the Present, which become Robotnik statues in the Bad Future) and were only given functionality when reworked into the Wacky Workbench easter egg. Without seeing a 'full' build of the game from around the same time as the v0.02 demo there's no real way to be sure. I will say it's strange they made the Easter egg only appear in the Past and Bad Future, though - it seems like a shoe-in for a fun Good Future/Bad Future difference.

    Off-topic a little, but I'd love to know all the stage names from the v0.02 era too, especially as R2 may not have lasted long enough to have been given a revised alliterative name like the others. We know from the demo itself that Palmtree Panic was Salad Plain, and someone (Mazin?) revealed on Twitter that Wacky Workbench was originally Crazy Toy Box (which frankly makes a lot of sense of its Good Future aesthetic). Is someone fluent in Japanese able to ask what the other stage names were originally?
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2022
  13. Black Squirrel

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    It's wiki time. There's no need to be afraid.
    I'd be surprised if the v0.02 prototype was stripped back specifically for Yuusei Sega World. It's dated nine months before the final game - the Nick Arcade build of Sonic 2 was only five or six months behind.
     
  14. CaseyAH_

    CaseyAH_

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    I believe that there are unused objects and leftover data in the v0.02 proto that pertain to later stages. They likely wouldn't have been anywhere close to done at the time but it is evidence they were being worked on at the time, which I don't think makes it unreasonable to assume they were in the game and taken out for the even specifically.
     
  15. Nik Pi

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    It's a good idea. Ofcourse, developers can ignore us, but, anyway, we should to try it.

    But, I don't sure about statue... yes, it can be a re-used art, but remember PPZ 3D ramp? It's appearance only in 1st act of PPZ, and never again. Or lazer in MMZ act 2, which makes you a little? What if this statue was just another special trick, and it's exists in game just because "ITS A SEGA CD!!! WE HAD NO LIMIwait, why we can't use CD tracks in past versions of zones?"
     
  16. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

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    There is actually some backing for this within the protos themselves. Look at the v0.02 level select:
    [​IMG]
    And then the 510 level select:
    [​IMG]
    It looks like they built straight off v0.02. I'd assume WARP, OPENING, and COMMING would be towards the end and R1-3-C and R1-3-D would be next to the rest of R1 if they hadn't.

    Judging this, it appears that the decision to cut R2 happened very early in development, before it would’ve been implemented.
     
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  17. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    It's wiki time. There's no need to be afraid.
    But then the question is, why didn't they take out the unused objects too? ;)

    I guess I'm just looking at the 510 build, where they chose to hide the unfinished levels rather than remove them. Sonic 2 did the same - it seems the path of least resistence, but it's hard to say for sure as there's a pretty big gap between v0.02 and 510.

    And Chaotix took things out in one build only to put them back in the next.
     
  18. _Sidle

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    That's almost certainly intentional. Chiptune for the past because it's old, CD-quality audio for the present and future.
    Collision Chaos is filled with water in the foreground and background in the final game, very low in the level. It's really nice looking in motion.
    Final Fever is the name of the final boss track in the normal game (the one that starts with singing and then gets dramatic in JP, don't remember what US is like). Could've sworn R9 and the Eggman mech you time travel to damage were pure 2011 concepts. Definitely weird that "BOSS" is visible. Is that just a doodle of Eggman? Or another giant mech in Eggman's image?

    Seeing that image again made me want to try translating the text on it, since I don't think I've seen that anywhere yet myself. It appears to be listing the time of day for every level... minus R2 because of course >:C
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    It's wiki time. There's no need to be afraid.
    Oh yeah I have no doubt the v0.02 prototype was built for Yuusei Sega World (with subsequent prototypes building on top of that), I'm just not convinced some theoretical "v0.01" build existed with more levels, which they physically removed in v0.02 for the sake of a one day promotional event.

    Another factor:
    [​IMG]
    This mockup of Collision Chaos (I think) stems from early 1993. Mockups suggest they don't have anything "real" to show, so my guess is "R3" wasn't in a healthy state until maybe March/April 1993?

    https://segaretro.org/index.php?title=File:SegaForce_UK_16.pdf&page=12
    Sega Force also suggests the game was delayed on the back of Sonic 2's reception. That could have been when R2 was culled - the feeling that they needed to differentiate themselves more from Sonic 1. The Japanese mags of the era will probably explain it better.
     
  20. Nik Pi

    Nik Pi

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    Maybe R2 was on a day? (he was canceled because it was alone zone, which was at day? lol)