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Sonic CD's Mysterious Cut R2 Level Discussion - Post Origins Edition

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by HEDGESMFG, Jul 12, 2022.

  1. Devon

    Devon

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    No. :V

    There's no specific code for Tidal Tempest in v0.02.
     
  2. Nik Pi

    Nik Pi

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    But the graphics for fish and sonic
     
  3. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

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    Unless TCRF are a bunch of filthy liars, the swinging platform and camera position are in there.
     
  4. Devon

    Devon

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    That doesn't really mean much of anything. The graphics for every type of animal can be found, and other sprites like mini Sonic were also implemented with nothing much else going for that. They probably just wanted to get all the sprites they could implemented first. There's literally nothing else for R4 onwards that I've seen.

    The swing actually fits with the final graphics for Palmtree Panic (said graphics CAN be found in v0.02 AND they even get loaded in act 2! Here's a post describing it more in detail), and has various movement modes. R4 and onwards all point to the same routine that sets the bottom boundary to 0x710, so I believe that's just a placeholder. Only R1 and R3 have specific implemented routines for managing the camera.

    Really, the idea of remnant objects from other zones in v0.02's R1 doesn't really work out when you realize that Sonic's movement code references the Collision Chaos pinball flippers by object ID, yet the actual object is not found in the v0.02 build. Also, the Collision Chaos remnants in v0.02 are all within Sonic's object code, which makes sense, since it's shared between stages.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2023
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  5. JayKuriN

    JayKuriN

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    TCRF articles are written by multiple people and can by edited by anyone that has an account. Articles get updated frequently as time goes on to correct misinformation.

    The main issue with 0.02's page was the lack of research up until recently, because a lot of what was added to the page were half-measures due to people not quite understanding how Sonic CD worked at the time, so it was more or less just people making do with what they had and could find. I've been working to fix a lot of this recently.

    Almost no-one goes on there to just lie about shit.
     
  6. I mean… he was just making a joke lol.

    Keep up the good work on TCRF though. Probably my favorite resource after Retro. (And the content there seemingly keeps the career of every YouTuber in the world going lol).
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2023
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  7. I think there's something else going on here, as what Mazin says here contradicts this statement made later in December 2022, which was made seven months after this. Both can't be true, and I'm thinking this "Only the present music was made" can't be true, as that makes no sense from a music production standpoint, all of the music would've been recorded in advance before all of the rounds were digitized or put in the game (hence for the 'Crazy Toy Box' line in Wacky Workbench).
     
  8. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

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    Someone is watching us flail about try to solve this...

    Does Angelfox have an account here I've missed? If I'm missing it, my mistake.
     
  9. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

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    AngelFox has been banned from Hidden Palace for trolling regarding their R2 fanfic. I wouldn't give them any attention.
     
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  10. He tried making an account here but didn't understand how to get validated if I recall.

    He doesn't have any fanfic about it if I recall, we've spoken on a few occasions, and from what I can gather is that he means well, he's just very easy to provoke into doing stupid things.
    What he did was immature in my opinion and the folk who kept relaying stuff to him made it worse, though I think that shouldn't completely represent his entire character. Really sucks he makes himself look bad as he does a lot of thorough research.
     
  11. GoldeMan

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    Not to get off topic but agreed, not knowing the drama it is so easy to get so excited over theories on stuff we don't know quite yet.

    I've seen his video, I agree with most of what they say but the Wacky Workbench Statue is a bit of a miss. It falls back to the ol' "He denies it so it must be him lying or misremembering" as a way to discredit it, and I get it to an extent (The Brenda Ross interview is a good example of this) but its weird how easy it is to cherry pick information we keep as cannon and deny other stuff because its not what we theorized. Then again it is all theory so I'm just talking silly.

    Maybe it did have something to do with R2, but if Mazin said "nah" then I don't see why not to believe him until counter information comes out, like further concept art, as weird as the Wacky Workbench Room is, it is possible it is just weird, CD is full of quirks, that is just a big one. (i'd like it to be an R2 leftover, but its speculation)
     
  12. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

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    Yeah, in my view, Nishimura outright saying "no" when someone asked him if the Wacky Workbench Easter egg was an R2 remnant is about as clear as it gets. I get the sense that if it WAS an R2 remnant and he wasn't allowed to say, he'd either just not answer or say "I can't say anything else" (which he's done in the past). We shouldn't assume he's lying or misremembering just because it looks like it could fit R2.
     
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  13. PimpUigi

    PimpUigi

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    I see Marble Zone inspired tiles, and that's all I'm a gonna see.
    I do wish the original person had asked Mazin "what's the story behind the statue room in Wacky Workbench?" instead. Because I still want to know! xD

    But to dig your heels into the sand and try to fight everyone who disagrees with you? That's not a winning combination.
    If someone wants to have their own theories, they shouldn't be trying to shut down other people's theories too. (see the Breath of the Wild timeline placement thread)

    Like if someone comes and says "I think R2 takes place in the volcano from Tidal Tempest's background!" that's cool. I like hearing creative theories. Tell me why, and what else goes into that theory?
     
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  14. Forte

    Forte

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    I don't think there really is any story behind it. They probably wanted to include it as a little Easter Egg. You all remember Metal Sonic statue from Sonic Heroes? It's that kind of thing, for those who look hard enough.
     
  15. JaxTH

    JaxTH

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    Jack shit.
    Does it though?

    Our earliest proto of Sonic CD has a build date of December 04, 1992, and the last release of Sonic 1 (the Japanese release) happened on July 26, 1991.

    If we just assume that CD started development directly after (Let's give the team the benefit of doubt that they had early CD hardware since the Mega CD launched on December 12, 1991 in Japan), how much time did the team have to get good with the Mega CD technology, how long did it take them to hash out what they wanted the game to be, concepts, drawings, etc?

    At best they had a year and a half before we get our earliest proto of the game and R2 isn't in it, so we have to assume it wad taken out by then. Even if we go on the fact that the earliest proto was for demonstration purposes and that other levels were dummied out the next earliest proto we have access to is from five months later and it isn't in there either. In fact, the music isn't complete and all Past stages are using their Present music, and this is a build from four months before the game would be officially released!

    I think it is completely possible that no other music was made for R2 other than its Present music given those circumstances.
     
  16. I actually didn’t know about this. That’s a pretty cool Easter egg. Sonic Heroes is probably my least played of the series for whatever reason. It always seemed like such a what see is what you get (…a guy that loves adventure…) game so it’s neat that there’re some hidden little details.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2023
  17. JaxTH

    JaxTH

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    Jack shit.
    What are we even talking about? The only Metal Sonic thing I know about in Heroes is in Hang Castle and the structure being Metal Sonic while upside down when at the end.
     
  18. I think that’s what’s being talked about. At least by me, as that’s what I found after googling “Sonic heroes metal Sonic statue.”
     
  19. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

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    The vast majority of the music is identical to the final in 510, the only significant differences being the title screen and speed shoes music. The Past variant of Palmtree Panic is in the v0.02 prototype, so I think it's safe to say the Past music was also completed, just not in the game by 510. Nishimura has said they sequenced the Past music in PCM due to space constraints so I'd imagine they were still trying to figure out how to implement them when 510/v0.28A were built (the first build to feature the PCM past music is v0.51).
     
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  20. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

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    I think Angelfox's arguments have some merit, and I appreciate some of his research (I genuinely think his Good/Bad Future tracks are not only well composed, but well informed speculation if nothing else), but this whole "correcting misconceptions" thing is still silly.

    Would I like the angel statue to be R2? Sure. It makes sense. It looks like assets from that style of stage. It fills in the gap, and it's useful when building a recreation like some modders are doing. It is certainly possible that there's more to the story. But again, I'd prefer if they'd at least discuss it with us here directly rather than do the clickbait "definitive answer" approach. Most of this is indeed speculative and we're trying to see if there's any other means to get better info, but I'd also guess we could hit a dead end soon if nothing else neat is released. Origins Plus and the 30th anniversary gives us the opportunity to get more, but it's far from guaranteed we will.

    My main source of frustration with all the current visual speculation and fanart for R2 is it still all mostly ignores the only real piece of concept art we have for the stage.

    [​IMG]

    There is no grass seen on the platforming ground in this, only bricks and arches. The rainbow waterfalls flow over the ruins, not behind them or in the BG. The BG has no trees, only mountains and grass. The bricks fade from black to red, which is another detail that's been ignored everywhere.

    I realize this is a rough draft and likely based only on a single time period (possibly good future), but that's why I disagree with the visual direction some of the artists are taking this in where we see marblezone with grass on top vs only ruins underneath. Again, this is why recovering perhaps 1-2 more concepts would be useful. We're all speculating wildly on the visuals still.