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Sonic CD's Mysterious Cut R2 Level Discussion - Post Origins Edition

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by HEDGESMFG, Jul 12, 2022.

  1. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

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    To add a bit to this, I do think there's more art of the stage out there that we have not seen. Whether or not that is 2D assets/tiles built for the game, or just concept art is one thing, but the Toei animation bits generally resembled assets in their stages pretty closely. I'd say the idea of Blue-ish ruins with vines and mould and an unknown machine in the backdrop at some point have to point to at least one asset existing that we haven't seen yet.

    However, I think the rest of your theory is pretty close. I suspect art assets that were built were either never implemented into the digitizers, or were very early in development when the stage was officially cut sometime in early 1993. Note how many assets were also redrawn between between Salad Plains and the later Palptree Panic betas as well, so even anything that may have been digitized could have been far from what a hypothetical final level asset would look like.
     
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  2. Pie Eyed Piper

    Pie Eyed Piper

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    Just a head's up. An account on Youtube claiming to be Masafumi Ogata just posted this hoax.

    Of course, why would a musician have a photo of the stage? It doesn't seem very well thought through, almost like regular people aren't aware of who the level artists for Sonic CD are by name, and even then, they'd have actual digital files to share like Craig Stitt. Anyway this may end up falling flat or it could blow out of proportion, you know how quickly people cling to bad information.

    That aside, I do find the hoax art interesting for one reason otherwise. With the name of the stage once being known as Ridicule Root, and all the roots you see in the Toei animation segment, plus the fact that the level takes place in what seems like a huge jungle/forest, it seems plausible that part of the stage wasn't merely underground but more specifically "under tree" (or within the topsoil and subsoil layer of the planet, even though it goes deeper in the planet concept). It's an interesting take on the underground trope and I'm not sure Sonic's done it before otherwise, and it makes a lot of sense. You can still do a Marble Zone style dungeon, but perhaps with more of an encroaching plant/tree root theme. It would just feel more like Mania's Stardust Speedway Act 1. If nothing else, the hoax above makes for a good Past stage concept, further separating it from Tidal Tempest's backdrop.

    Something else to consider for those making Sonic CD remakes or mods, anyway. It's not a bad idea given the information we have, and it adds it all together in a plausible way.
     
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  3. Palas

    Palas

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    Good thinking. It would make sense for the stage t have some sort of overgrown ruins theme, with the roots -- or enemies that'd pop out of them or something -- acting as the main threat. Not all that different from Aquatic Ruin, possibly, in terms of the caution with which you'd have to approach it, but overall Mania's Stardust Speedway looks very close from what we'd get if you're right. The hoax doesn't look anything like a Past concept to me, though. Most if not all Past versions of the stages are very heavily green, even the constructions -- and, when they don't display a pristine, untouched environment, they show a place that's being worked on by Eggman. This doesn't look like either to me.
     
  4. Devon

    Devon

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    lol it's not even a good hoax. The art style doesn't really fit in with the rest of the game's graphics. Those roots in the background look pillow shaded, even.
     
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  5. This is making me wonder what kind of material the actual musicians were working off of when they composed the tracks. Masa said he was given concept art to make Sonic 1 & 2’s OST, so I imagine something similar happened here. I doubt R2’s/DA Garden’s track was composed with the limited concept art we currently have for the stage, so I’m curious what else may exist out there and who may have it. I’d like to see one from the 2D perspective of the games like we have for so many Sonic 1 and 2 stages.
     
  6. Pie Eyed Piper

    Pie Eyed Piper

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    I meant more to consider (as an artist), not that I thought the above was a past concept precisely. Otherwise, fan projects may be likely to choose a rock cavern as the natural environment, as at least one has. Topsoil layer is a more original direction, though, and it's a logical starting point.

    Though even after typing that, I caught myself wondering "just how far in the past is the past", and if the dungeon would have been built, under construction, or not there. Stardust Speedway shows there was ancient civilizations around to build architecture in the past, so it could have happened, but then in Tidal Tempest, there's nothing at all (at least in the background). Dubious Depths looks like it's already falling apart in present time in the Toei segment, so maybe the past should be more intact? I'm not sure. Guess that's where individual interpretation kicks in, because unless there were concept sketches, I don't think there was ever any tilesets for R2's other time periods, meaning there won't be any clarification on it.
     
  7. Palas

    Palas

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    I always defaulted this answer to "you don't actually go to the same timeframe every stage" as headcanon. Tidal Tempest looks like its past is set eons upon eons ago, what with the volcanoes and how the badniks resemble cambrian animals, whereas Stardust Speedway looks basically like a classical period in Rome/Greece at night. But I agree that it'd make sense for Dubious Depths' past to actually be what the ruins were before they were ruins, so they could look more intact.
     
  8. Fadaway

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    Hold up. That's an interesting image, fake or not. I dig the ground tiles. Although, it would be hilarious for someone to leak a real mockup image in such a way that it appears fake to everyone on the internet but is indeed real. Still, I do like the ground tiles even if it's fake.

    But, I digress. Can anybody identify any tiles used? The background is particularly busy.

    Editing this to add I find that image fascinating. 99% likely fake btw but fascinating. The weird coloured roots look so odd.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2023
  9. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    Small correction, but actually the volcanoes in TT are visible (only) in the present. And judging from the Little Planet map, they still exist in the future.
     
  10. HEDGESMFG

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    Even if that were real, I'd say "No wonder it was cut".

    The art style looks a lot more crude than the rest of the game.
     
  11. Fadaway

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    The video still plays for me but now, when I go to the channel's main page I get a ‘This channel does not exist’ message and the comments on the video are no longer there, at least not for me. Heh.
     
  12. Fadaway

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    It does look crude but I dig the aesthetic within the tiles. Like, that's not a bad start. It just needs to be fleshed out and polished.
     
  13. Sparks

    Sparks

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    Sondro Gomez / Kyle & Lucy
    This looks like it was made in 2006.
     
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  14. Fadaway

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    Photoshop or something in the background. The whole thing but particularly noticable in the background.
     
  15. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

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    I'd downgrade that to 2002, personally.

    It's not 1998 hoaxes bad, at least.
     
  16. Rafa Stary

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    Last edited: Feb 23, 2023
  17. Chibisteven

    Chibisteven

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    EccoTIT is a 74 minute disc.
    Sonic CD is a 63 minute disc.

    An 80 minute audio CD is about 800 MB give or take where a CD-ROM can only use 700 MB of that's disc's compacity. CD-ROM data needs more error-correction where audio track portions use less error-correction because they're regular CD audio.
     
  18. That's a cool mock up. To me it looks like the perfect fake, it reminds me of the old S2 wood zone screenshots, they also look unfinished and didn't fit in with the rest of the game. It wouldn't actually make sense to hoax this level as if it looked finished.
     
  19. That’s a good point. Wood Zone looks REALLY rough compared to the finished levels. Though I wonder if that’s the cause of or result of being cut from the game. Either way, I imagine if it were kept in, more work would have been put into it.
     
  20. Fadaway

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    That was also my reaction. Those spikes don't look like actual spikes in the game (I don't think...unless there are spikes like that in a particular level somewhere that escapes my mind right now). For someone to fake an image, wouldn't they use actual spikes assets? [EDIT: I was wrong. These do appear to be Sonic CD spikes assets from a cursory glance] Comes across odd for even being a fake. Yet, it does look like some super early and rough mockups and unfinished levels from actual games just a bit. The background is still super weird and reminds me of old fakes from back in the day like that old fake Genocide City Zone screenshot that used to make the rounds.

    Given the circumstances, though, and also given how photoshopped it looks, it probably is fake anyway. But, interesting. To me at least.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2023