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Sonic CD's Mysterious Cut R2 Level Discussion - Post Origins Edition

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by HEDGESMFG, Jul 12, 2022.

  1. Antheraea

    Antheraea

    Bug Hunter Member
    re: this, I'd actually believe it. do we have information as to why the game's past music was eventually synthesized on-the-fly as opposed to recorded? (the past music for Salad Plain is recorded in the Yuusei prototype, so clearly they had been considering just recording it like everything else) If it was a happy accident, that it'd make the songs sound better for their given time period, while also saving space......

    ...and roots (and radishes) go in salads. maybe they were just really hungry coming up with the first batch of names :ruby:
     
  2. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    Glad to see that us loyal Ohshima believers have been vindicated for believing in the word of the lord.
     
  3. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

    no reverse gear Wiki Sysop
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    Oh, right okay:
    No this stuff is fine to put on a wiki, as long the shred of doubt is mentioned.

    Case in point:

    [​IMG]
    We think this is R2. We don't know it's R2, but the pattern in the outro animation and uncovered prototype Antlion sprites (not to mention it doesn't resemble any level in game) means there's a strong case that it could be R2.



    Actually come to think of it, one of the first rules of science is that nothing is certain in science. Newton was correct until Einstein was more correct - we shouldn't have many absolutes when it comes to discussing game development.
     
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  4. Battons

    Battons

    Shining Force Fan Member
    Pretty compelling, I agree with you. I see now I was being a bit brash in my assertion. I mostly just didn’t want people to say something I’d definitive when there’s a logical reason to doubt the information. I’ve read the article and as it is I think it’s perfect other than some grammatical errors that I’m sure will be fixed by the time I’ve posted this.
     
  5. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Doesn't seem to apply to current scientists.

    "The laws of thermodynamics are absolutely certain! Energy can not be created nor destroyed!"
    <The universe begins to speed up>
    "Hey hey hey! You can't do that!"
     
  6. Mookey

    Mookey

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    Well, some may *think* it doesn't apply to them, but inevitably uncertainty prevails ;)
     
  7. Brainulator

    Brainulator

    Regular garden-variety member Member
    I thought the sprites that The Taxman showed us were original sprites from Sonic CD's development...
     
  8. Plorpus

    Plorpus

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    Yeah, those were actual assets given to him by Sega.
     
  9. Ura

    Ura

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    It's ridiculous how good I find the name... "Ridicule Root" to be :P
     
  10. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    I think Azookara may be referring to Desert Dazzle, although it wasn't a R2 recreation as much as it was Taxman's first attempt at implementing his take on Sand Shower in an official game. Nothing about it was based on the original R2 AFAIK.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2023
  11. Overlord

    Overlord

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    I'm confused. I wasn't doubting the word of Ohshima at all, I personally was doubting the fact that because of how the information was brought out, it could have easily been faked. I assumed this was what everyone was debating it about, not the information itself!

    Indeed, now this is in a place where it's not fakeable I have no doubts on the authenticity now.
     
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  12. DarkVDee

    DarkVDee

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    I didn't make it nor Taxman. Those scrapped R2 badniks and unfinished boss was originally from Sega. They provided thoe t Taxman. Hope this clears up the confusion here.
     
  13. Astro

    Astro

    Member
    Ridicule Root and Dubious Depths both suggest to me a level that was going to revolve around traps that trick the player, probably into falling further into a level that was half Marble Zone-style underground dungeon, half above-ground forest-y area. There may not have been any sort of lava/dust element and instead the above ground were the forest/jungle-y remains of a city while the 'depths' of the zone were its 'roots'.

    Or maybe it literally was just Sonic CD's answer to Marble Zone but with more antlions, lol.
     
  14. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    There is a fan in the Little Planet concept art where R2 is, which does suggest some importance.
     
  15. Astro

    Astro

    Member
    Could always be fans were going to be a reoccuring gimmick like in Starlight, half giving you a quick way out of the lower-half, half just another way of screwing the player over.

    If Ohshima's comment that the zone didn't gel with Sonic's speed enough is accurate, maybe it was an over-reliance on traps that would kill your speed/time warping ability (which by Sonic CD standards is saying something) that led to it being a prime candidate for getting cut when schedule issues cropped up?
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2023
  16. Rafa Stary

    Rafa Stary

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    Last edited: May 16, 2023
  17. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    I still maintain they should've used the Super Peelout to let you insta-Time Travel...

    Just charge it up, then when you release when sparkling and the sign flashing you time travel. Would both give a new use to the Super Peelout that benefits its use and allows players to time travel as and when needed.

    If 'balance' is needed, just make it so the sign is flashing and you still need to travel that short distance you otherwise need to while it does so.
     
  18. Taylor

    Taylor

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    I'm fine with leaving the page title as "R2" (not that I edit the Wiki anyway lol) but I can't help but highlight this. Some people are demanding an impossibly high standard of proof and I think it comes from lack of perspective and/or an overreaction to the Dust Hill debacle. There's a lot of uncertainties about actual historical events, of course we're gonna have some degree of doubt about Sonic the Hedgehog :V
     
  19. Astro

    Astro

    Member
    I think it could go either way; reading up about it the Past tracks were converted to the PCM audio format to limit the amount of space all the music was taking up on the CD, but if Dubious Depths (I'm just going to call it that from here on out lol) was cut because its four songs pushed the file size over the limit, why was it chosen and not a different level? Just seems like there'd have to be more than just music sizes as to why specifically this level was cut.

    And yeah Sonic CD loves to trip you up or at least give you things to interact with on a finer level than most classic Sonic games, but I could see Dubious Depths just going over the line too much even by those standards.
     
  20. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

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    There were:

    • Space issues
    • Time constraints (the zone art wasn't finished, the boss wasn't either, only the present theme was recorded)
    • The zone theme didn't fit in with the progressive mechanization (the % value on that Little Planet map)
    • R2 would have broken the Daytime cycle (Morning Evening Night) established for the other zones (explicitly pointed out in the Little Planet map)
    - R1 - Morning
    - R2 - ?
    - R3 - Evening
    - R4 - Night
    - R5 - Morning
    - R6 - Evening
    - R7 - Night
    - R8 - Morning