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Sonic CD's Mysterious Cut R2 Level Discussion - Post Origins Edition

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by HEDGESMFG, Jul 12, 2022.

  1. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    Sonic CD didn't have visual differences between acts, so I would think they would have gone for the latter. Especially since like you said, the level seems to be based on Marble Zone.
     
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  2. But there are visual differences in time periods, so you could make it so a Bad Future version of Dubious Depths is more above ground and grungy due to Eggman's handiwork, which would be a good compromise.
     
  3. Laura

    Laura

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    Not to ruin everyone's fun but isn't if possible he's giving an incorrect name and misrembering?

    I'm not sure we should take this as certain fact.
     
  4. saxman

    saxman

    Oldbie Tech Member
    Usually I agree with you, but I am willing to believe this. Prior to giving the name, he said he had to check. That suggests to me he looked at some document. I would find a document hard to dispute in this case.

    Unless you can offer an alternative explanation for that?
     
  5. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

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    It's also kind of irrelevant since this is as close to the horse's mouth as we're going to get. Until someone else comes forward and contradicts him, we have literally no evidence that this 'isn't' true.

    Also, more to the point, his statement that the zone was cut because it was too slow is more speculative and is a statement more based on faulty memory, but still an interesting one that should be discussed.

    However, I think we should all treat this as true until told otherwise by another official source. At worst, it was a prototype name for the stage, and I agree with the above assessment that he likely checked old documents he had access too to verify this.
     
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  6. MasterDreamcaster

    MasterDreamcaster

    Running Up That Green Hill Member
    Oh how I love English language, although there's still so much to learn - yes, of course: that word is related to water.
    Looking at unused animation from Sonic CD and considering the fact that there is a drawing with rainbow waterfalls... well, it kinda reminds me of Hydro City. That level takes place underground, there are waterfalls and its early background had some vegetation, just like that place in SCD animation.
    retroarch 2023-01-12 20-34-41-634.png Also, Hydro City is Round 2 of Sonic The Hedgehog 3.
     
  7. MasterDreamcaster

    MasterDreamcaster

    Running Up That Green Hill Member
    I also had a similar thought - that he checked a design document, maybe. That is interesting: Round 2 made it to an alliterative name (DD), like other levels: PP, CC, TT, QQ, WW, SS, MM. So, it could have had another, earlier name, like Salad Plain for Palmtree Panic and Crazy Toy Box for Wacky Workbench.
     
  8. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

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    I know this is a lot to ask, but if you do have the chance to speak with him again, is it possible to request that he shares any details of the design documents we have not yet seen? He should be aware that there's a large group of gamers who would fawn over even the tiniest bit of information about this missing level. It may seem obsessive, but the game is an extremely unique piece of gaming/cultural history (easily one of the most creative titles of the early 90s), and its history and development deserves to be preserved in whatever capacity possible. This is also arguably the last big mystery remaining for the classic titles outside of perhaps the missing Tokyo Game Show 1990 proto.

    Naturally, we'd need to do so carefully and respectfully. He's been online for a number of years now, but we still don't want to open him up to harassment on this kind of subject.
     
  9. MasterDreamcaster

    MasterDreamcaster

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  10. Titan

    Titan

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    Amazing to finally know this after so long, hats off to you @MasterDreamcaster ! Twitter is good for something sometimes...

    It does make me chuckle to think of someone on the team saying 'Hmm, yes, this level is a bit dubious isn't it? Cut it'
     
  11. It is a perfectly ironic name for a cut zone isn’t it? I’m surprised it took so long to come out into public. Japanese devs really take company privacy seriously so I’m glad some of these older guys have reached the “eh fuck it” stage of life lol.
     
  12. nineko

    nineko

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    Nice stuff, someone should amend the wiki. I'd do that, but this is important so it should be probably done by someone with more experience.
     
  13. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    Interesting idea, but the different time periods are supposed to take place in the exact same location. You use time travel, you get warped to the same spot in a different era. It wouldn't make sense for Sonic be underground and end up above the area after warping.

    There is always the possibility that he looked at the level list in the document, read "Dubious Depths" and assumed it was the scrapped level's name when it was actually Tidal Tempest's early name. Seeing how he remembers nothing about the level itself, he probably didn't remember its placement in the level order either.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2023
  14. Nik Pi

    Nik Pi

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    Double bruh
    According to this- we can't belive to anyone from developers, because they can't remember anything right, but we can't trust to anyone else because they are haven't worked on game..
    :tinfoil:
    Interesting, if Taxman will tell us something about Sonic Mania, can we say, that "He Can ReMeMbEr sOmE ThInG wRoNg1!!1"?
     
  15. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    Where did I say that Ohshima's word should be dismissed? Saxman asked for any alternative explanations and I gave one. I'm just covering all bases.
     
  16. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

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    I don't think "Ohshima's misremembering!" is particularly helpful discourse, since he checked before he back with a name. It'd be different if he said "I think it was called..." or "I recall it was...", but he said he'd check, he checked, and then said the round's name was Dubious Depths. I don't see much reason to doubt him.
     
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  17. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    Good thing nobody said "Ohshima's misremembering!"
     
  18. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

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  19. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    There is a difference between saying "Ohshima's obviously misremembering, ignore his word" and "keep in mind that he might be misremembering some details", especially when he admitted to remember next to nothing about the level in question. Devs have misremembered stuff in the past you know.
     
  20. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    it wasn't a good sprite to begin with
    I'd be tempted to wait for a second source before moving the page from "R2".

    Ohshima suggests the level might have been cut for not suiting Sonic's speed, whereas Masato Nishimura has claimed it was due the music not fitting on a CD-ROM. We've also got testimonies that the developers behind it were too slow and/or didn't do a good enough job. All three could be true, but some might not be, and when you include the language barrier, there's enough to at least question the claims. Are we all talking about the same level?

    It might be an underground dungeon, but might also have rainbow waterfalls. And it might be Tidal Tempest. Clarifcation on all of this would be helpful first.


    What we are quite certain about is that the level was known internally as "R2" (or "Round 2", i.e. "the second round"). There's the potential here for the page to be "more right" but it currently isn't "wrong".