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Sonic CD's Mysterious Cut R2 Level Discussion - Post Origins Edition

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by HEDGESMFG, Jul 12, 2022.

  1. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG

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    Sonic Origins revealed a new Little Planet Concept Art that shows a bit more of the concept behind the mysterious cut "R2" (Round 2) stage in Sonic CD (set between Palmtree Panic and Collision Chaos). It has taken many, many years to get even the tiniest fragment of information about what this stage was, but this new artwork seems rather telling and I think justifies a new thread entirely to discuss it.

    The R2 Section of the Image in Question:
    [​IMG]

    Previously Released Concept Art (Confirmed by Taxman to be from R2):
    [​IMG]

    Animated Gif from the Toei Animation CD opening (Again, confirmed to be from R2, unknown what time period this scene may have occurred in):
    [​IMG]

    Incomplete Boss and Enemy Spritework (Also Confirmed by Taxman to be from R2):
    [​IMG]

    None of this is discussing Taxman's later attempt to make Desert Dazzle, which was his own idea entirely based on very old, very incorrect 2000s rumors of R2 being a "Dust Hill" like desert stage. Here we're focusing solely on whatever the real R2 once was. That version of the incomplete stage did make it back into at least one version of the mobile release 'and' is even still intact inside Origins' own data. For those curious:


    Additionally, though I don't have the tweet translation on hand, it's been confirmed that the JP Little Planet theme was an unused R2 track, though we don't know which time period it was based in (Though it doesn't match the style of past tracks and, so either Present or Good Future)
    https://twitter.com/Mazin__/status/136837158827851777

    My personal speculation...

    It's been pointed out here in the Origins Thread that the concept art showing R2 being underground may track a bit with the trope of R2 being based on Marble Zone, and I agree with that to an extent. Clearly, a non-water zone ruins theme was intended for the stage itself to at least some degree. However, there also seems to be elements of technology in the underground section. Note the giant fan at the bottom and mysterious machine wall Sonic runs by in the animation on the right. I'm also not seeing any evidence of lava in this version of the stage at any point.

    Furthermore, one detail I think people are overlooking is that R2 as shown on the little planet Diagram appears to have 2 sections, an above ground, and underground. There appears to be rain-clouds and flowing water on the platforms atop (nicely matching the earlier rainbow concept art) before you go into the underground section below. Perhaps Act 1 was supposed to be above ground where the rainbow waterfalls were (and it was raining during this act), while Act 2 would've been fully underground similar to the underground sections of Marble Zone in Sonic 1 (but with spikes and technology rather than Lava).

    Feel free to speculate more.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2022
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  2. saxman

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    It's hard to make out exactly what is going on in the Little Planet picture there, but instinctually it reminds me of a construction site with some clouds of pollution above. Just look at those platforms. Are they not suggestive of steel beams?

    Also, I'm not sure I need to point this out, but just in case anyone hasn't noticed it...

    R1 - Similar to GHZ
    R2 - ?
    R3 - Similar to SYZ
    R4 - Similar to LZ
    R5 - New concept
    R6 - New concept
    R7 - Similar to SLZ
    R8 - Similar to SBZ

    So that alone is strongly suggestive to the idea that R2 would have been similar to MZ in some ways.
     
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  3. synchronizer

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    i’m speculating, but pieces of R2 were seemingly reused in other stages, like that random statue in Wacky Workbench, which maybe is related. Also, that underground section kind of reminds me of Tidal Tempest, which had fans underwater, no? The drawing also reminds me of GHZ’s caves from the Master System version of Sonic 1.

    Here’s the background of Tidal Tempest Bad future.

    [​IMG]

    and here’s the fan on the right:
    [​IMG]

    Again, it’s speculation, but if I had to guess, small pieces of R2 were incorporated into other stages like Tidal Tempest.

    The underground portion of the R2 on-planet sketch basically looks like Tidal Tempest to me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2022
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  4. Exoticus

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    To me, it seems like totem poles of some kind. Since it's just a low-detail sketch, however, it's hard to say anything definitively. And on lava - maybe it would've been time period specific? Bad Future has lava (maybe due to Eggman mining the place to hell and back), present is dry like in the animation, good future/past has water - and in the good future it would be that rainbow water we see in the concept art. That would be a cool progression of sorts.
     
  5. Blue Spikeball

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    I feel the Origins concept art makes it even clearer that R2 would have been based on Marble Zone, with underground areas.

    Anyway, the antlion badnik was considered for Metallic Madness after R2 was scrapped. The infamous spike pits there seem to be leftover of sandpits planned for the badnik. Some SCD prototypes even had trap doors over them that opened when you stepped on them, making it work closer to the planned sandpit gimmick.
     
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  6. _Sidle

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    Aren't all of the ending shots based heavily on the present environments? Even the ones depicting things in the boss stages, which only take place in a future, depict the present.

    upload_2022-7-12_6-15-6.png upload_2022-7-12_6-18-2.png
    upload_2022-7-12_6-18-55.png upload_2022-7-12_6-19-21.png
    upload_2022-7-12_6-19-52.png upload_2022-7-12_6-20-43.png
    upload_2022-7-12_6-22-7.png upload_2022-7-12_6-22-58.png
    upload_2022-7-12_6-27-30.png upload_2022-7-12_6-28-9.png

    TIL the img upload limit per post is 10. R8-MM is green with reddish/pink details like in the present.
     
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  7. Cooljerk

    Cooljerk

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    Marble Zone had blanketed clouds originally, perhaps that's what the clouds a top are showing. Also worth pointing out -- those clouds seem to be someone's penciled in notes, not part of the original image, which was printed on a printer.

    Another thing to wonder about -- at their earliest stages, Sonic 2 GG and Sonic CD were part of the same project. They have vestigial weird connections, like You Can Do Anything being in both games. Sonic CD's R2 animation shows an antlion that looks similar to the boss to underground zone. Maybe Underground zone itself gives some clues about what the level was like? That pit with the fan at the bottom kind of reminds me of the pit you fall into in act 3 of Underground Zone.
     
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  8. Forte

    Forte

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    The team at TOEI surely had concept art of stages given them by the team. Let's hope it will leak in the future, or maybe in some other Sonic collections.
     
  9. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Considering what we know, I've began mentally calling this zone Radiant Ruins. To both keep the R2, alliteration and to bring to mind the rainbows and ruins aesthetic that it seems to have had going on.
     
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  10. Forte

    Forte

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    Isn't this a bit of a stretch, thought? I mean, we know there are similarities, but its first time I heard that CD and Sonic 2 GG were part of the same project.

    I don't want to discredit what You wrote by any means, but do we have any evidence of this?

    I mean, yeah - the badnik is similar, but it could be pure confidence, and sharing songs composers between games was pretty common within one company, at least I believe it was.
     
  11. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    I think they meant MD, Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Mega Drive) was once the same game as Sonic the Hedgehog CD. Both spun off wildly from one another.
     
  12. Cooljerk

    Cooljerk

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    All 3 games were simultaneously announced as different versions of Sonic 2, handled by 3 different teams. Just like how Sonic CD took off in a wildly different direction, so did Sonic 2 8-bit. It all stems from this: https://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_2_CD

    you can see traces in their genesis as sister projects from extremely broad concepts, like Metal Sonic being a thing. From the way we know how Sonic 1 8-bit was developed -- where very early on Yuzo Koshiro was shared broad outlines about where Sonic 1 MD was going and then they diverged, it would stand to reason that Sonic 2 8-bit followed a similar development path.

    It's the same composer. Naofumi Hataya composed music for both Sonic 2 8-bit, and Sonic CD. It's why Metallic Madness Zone bad future has a bit from the game gear version of the boss theme.

    Sonic 2 8-bit shares more than just a song with Sonic CD, though. All the level-art sprites of Sonic in the game, for example, are from Sonic CD, not Sonic 2 or Sonic 1.
     
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  13. pkderbar

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    The sketch certainly evokes feelings of Marble Zone, since the zone flows are generally:
    1. Start on the surface
    2. Descend
    3. Return to the surface
     
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  14. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

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    Mazin has mentioned it was the present theme, iirc
     
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  15. Snowbound

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  16. Pengi

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  17. saxman

    saxman

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    I think the idea of reusing art originally intended for R2 is plausible. Has anyone from the team behind Sonic CD commented on whether there was ever level art made for R2 or not?

    That page on the supposed Sonic 2 CD is chalk full of speculation and not grounded in any hard evidence. I am not aware of any developer saying definitively that Sonic CD was originally a version of Sonic 2. Anyone who did suggest Sega CD was getting a Sonic 2 port may have simple been misinformed. That's the kind of stuff we used to believe 20 years ago.
     
  18. HEDGESMFG

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    I agree, this is an idea I'd never actually considered until now, but it makes a lot of sense. We already know assets from S2 were re-used in Spinball for example (Genocide City and Hidden Palace), so there is a precedent for it.


    I believe Radical Ruins has also been a common fan name for many years (there were several attempts at making fan-made OSTs, none of which have been based off of the Little Planet theme as of yet), but I like your name even better.
     
  19. Black Squirrel

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    hey wiki you're so fine
  20. Forte

    Forte

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    Oh, I see.
    Well, maybe there is a bit of R2 in Underground Zone then. After all, ideas gets often thrown between people and get reused. Still I believe it to be more of a coincidence than anything.