Sonic Boom

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by iojnekns, Oct 29, 2009.

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  1. Skyler

    Skyler

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    I've played this, I've read most of this thread, I've seen the arguments. My head fucking hurts.

    First off, let me say that I got into this without knowing any of the hype. All I had seen was a TAS posted in another topic. With that out of the way, I don't like this hack from a gameplay perspective.

    The level design isn't exactly linear, but it feels more like a QTE than anything - at least, when I'm not getting hit by spikes or an oncoming zapper I had no clue was ahead of me. The new Orbinauts are pretty cheap without either an insta-shield or having their balls thrown at me. I recognize this was countered by only using 3 as opposed to 4, but the triangle-like arrangement only leaves for little more room than what should be considered a simple Badnik. Speaking of Badniks, how the fuck are you supposed to know that you can destroy the security cameras? Especially when they just look like a piece of the somewhat (I repeat, somewhat) bland scenery, who would see them and say to themselves, "I think I'm just going to bust open that camera that just looks like any other nondestroyable obstacle like the DEZ electric floors or zappers"?

    One thing I see in most hacks that drives me nuts is, well, let me try to show you:
    [​IMG]
    Seeing this every now and then isn't a problem. However, many hacks use this way too much, and this one is no exception. There is nothing there, it's simply an empty piece of path that is time consuming and annoying. At the very least, another path could be made through the wall or something (which there are in this hack, don't get me wrong, but it can be hard to tell sometimes amongst the similar colors), not emptiness or a needless enemy.

    Speaking of the design, it's basically a clusterfuck. What I mean by that is that it's filled a bunch of ramps, loops, springs, and floors-that-you-can-go-through-but-don't-look-like-it-because-they-look-just-like-any-other-solid-barrier-in-the-stage-that's-made-up-of-the-same-colors. I'm all for a well-calculated rollercoaster ride, but I also like to have a bit of an idea as to where it's taking me. Having to memorize which times to jump, to press down to roll (Those electric floors in the loops? Seriously?), and to simply navigate my way through without harm is a no-no... all with these fancy new moves that are not only confusing but not addressed to the player in a manner that's understandable.

    The first boss, I only have one complaint. The orbs, in my opinion, shouldn't do damage when they're still being gathered by King Orbi. Otherwise, it's a nice challenge. Gorbichev, however... fuck him. I have never hated a boss, official or otherwise, as much as this cunt. These blue spheres fly all over the fucking place, there's absolutely no indicication of what kind of attack he's going to do next, you can't tell which of the psuedo-3D spheres will damage you or which won't when they bounce around. And just when you finally, finally think you land a hit on him, you fucking bounce off him like a bumper, the *ping* sound included for added rage. It took me many long, frustrating, angering tries to finally defeat him. With fucking savestates.

    That boss had sucked the enjoyment out of my system by the time I got to Act 3, which felt like a 2D version of the annoying Quick-Step segments in Unleashed, only instead you were jumping. Oh, and one wrong move and you're dead. Unless you have savestates, you have to do the act all over again. But hey, at least this time you're able to memorize which places to jump to, right? That just might make it fun! Oh, wait...

    Enough of my rage. It's 1am here and I'm tired as hell. Look, it's great technically, just like everyone else has stated, but it's not fun. It's frustrating. I do hope this becomes better in a later release. Maybe you'll take some of my advice/complaints into consideration, maybe not. Best of luck, regardless.



    One more thing:
    Tweaker I usually agree with you, but I just can't here. If this isn't supposed to be a Sonic game, why is this hack that has Sonic in the title and as the only playable character (so far) in it that I downloaded from a Sonic-based message board that hosts other Sonic hacks and projects that won a Sonic hacking contest being discussed by Sonic fans who play Sonic games and other Sonic hacks featured in the very same in the "Engineering & Reverse Engineering" subforum for the Sonic section of this Sonic site? I mean no insults or anything like that, but help me out here.
     
  2. Tweaker

    Tweaker

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    <!--quoteo(post=370220:date=Nov 6 2009, 04:15 AM:name=Moonshadow Caz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Moonshadow Caz @ Nov 6 2009, 04:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=370220">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Tweaker I usually agree with you, but I just can't here. If this isn't supposed to be a Sonic game, why is this hack that has Sonic in the title and as the only playable character (so far) in it that I downloaded from a Sonic-based message board that hosts other Sonic hacks and projects that won a Sonic hacking contest being discussed by Sonic fans who play Sonic games and other Sonic hacks featured in the very same in the "Engineering & Reverse Engineering" subforum for the Sonic section of this Sonic site? I mean no insults or anything like that, but help me out here.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Well, first off, I said not to look at it as a classic Sonic game. Every single complaint about the level design you had was because it very much went against the bock-standard classic Sonic game design principles, which is very much the intent of the game. It is not, should not be looked at, and does not want to be a classic Sonic game. Its own unique style is very much obviously a love-or-hate sort of thing, though I feel a lot more people would appreciate it if they didn't keep trying to compare it to Sonic 2.

    In addition, I find that the notion behind your implication that everything has the be memorized is very much due to your own skill rather than the design of the game itself. When I first played a build of Sonic Boom with level design very similar to—if not exactly—this, after having never played it before, I did absolutely fine and had no problems at all. Do I occasionally get hit by an electric bed? Yes—that's how I know to duck from that point forward. How did I know that spikes hurt me repeatedly to my death in Sonic 1? I hit the spikes; suddenly, I know not to hit the spikes in the future.

    Trial and error is very much a core prospect of any Sonic game; regardless of that, though, Sonic Boom is relatively forgiving in that regard, save for maybe Gorbichev and Act 3. That doesn't make the design bad, though—it just means that it pissed you off. Sonic 2's final boss used to piss me off, too... then I learned to beat it without issue, and suddenly it's just as fun as the rest of the game.

    Knee-jerk reactions based off spur of the moment rage do not an objective review make; if that were the case, I would have written a raging wall of text in my initial review of the game instead of my honest one. It was very much my own fault I kept dying at certain points of the game, so I improved my skill until I was able to traverse it without issue. That's the bottom line.
     
  3. FinalBeyond

    FinalBeyond

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    Just found a bug, not sure if it's known about, encountered during the fight with Gorbichev. I'd saved my state a few seconds before it happened, so I've been able to see if I could avoid it, but it seems I'm at such a point that whatever my action, it still glitches, just with slightly different garbled sprites on the screen, and number on the blue screen.

    Screenshots:
    <a href="https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2785286/Boom1.png" target="_blank">https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2785286/Boom1.png</a>
    <a href="https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2785286/Boom2.png" target="_blank">https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2785286/Boom2.png</a>
    <a href="https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2785286/Boom3.png" target="_blank">https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2785286/Boom3.png</a>
     
  4. Ice Sonic

    Ice Sonic

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    No, I am not working on any hack, fanart, or website.
    Man, that post was funny.
    <!--quoteo(post=370220:date=Nov 6 2009, 11:15 AM:name=Moonshadow Caz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Moonshadow Caz @ Nov 6 2009, 11:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=370220">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My head fucking hurts.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Then why did you made this post? Just look at all the crap you have written:

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The new Orbinauts are pretty cheap without either an insta-shield or having their balls thrown at me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That's one of the stupidest things I've seen in this topic. They aren't even new other than the look. The orbinauts in Star Light Zone are actually harder and I've never made an attempt to kill them. You should hate them then. Or if you're in Ice Cap Zone and you don't have a shield - I guess you should be pissed at the Star Pointers too.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Speaking of Badniks, how the fuck are you supposed to know that you can destroy the security cameras?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Hmm, that's a tough one....how about jumping on them? That's like saying "how am I supposed to know that I can destroy the Relieves (MGZ, Sonic 3)"

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[​IMG]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I agree, parts like these aren't good but at least you have a special move for that.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->but I also like to have a bit of an idea as to where it's taking me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    How is Power Plant so confusing? I've had more trouble navigating through Stardust Speedway Zone.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Having to memorize which times to jump, to press down to roll (Those electric floors in the loops? Seriously?), and to simply navigate my way through without harm is a no-no...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This is where I started laughing. Why do so many people bitch about that? I can understand if you get hit a few times but it's really not that hard to figure how to pass them.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->all with these fancy new moves that are not only confusing but not addressed to the player in a manner that's understandable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You forgot your head hurts. That's probably the reason.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The first boss, I only have one complaint. The orbs, in my opinion, shouldn't do damage when they're still being gathered by King Orbi. Otherwise, it's a nice challenge. Gorbichev, however... fuck him. I have never hated a boss, official or otherwise, as much as this cunt. These blue spheres fly all over the fucking place, there's absolutely no indicication of what kind of attack he's going to do next, you can't tell which of the psuedo-3D spheres will damage you or which won't when they bounce around. And just when you finally, finally think you land a hit on him, you fucking bounce off him like a bumper, the *ping* sound included for added rage. It took me many long, frustrating, angering tries to finally defeat him. With fucking savestates.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Obviously, you don't have enough patience.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh, and one wrong move and you're dead.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yeah, what's up with THAT?

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Unless you have savestates, you have to do the act all over again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Because the level is only a minute and fifteen seconds long. That's too much time.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But hey, at least this time you're able to memorize which places to jump to, right?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    And hey, at least you have infinite lives too, right?

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Look, it's great technically, just like everyone else has stated, but it's not fun. It's frustrating. I do hope I'll become better at playing it until a later release.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Wait, I forgot something.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Enough of my rage. It's 1am here and I'm tired as hell.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It's all clear now. You see? It's all about trial and error to become better at things. First time going through a loop with the electric floors without rolling? Bad idea! Posting at 1am while tired as hell and with a headache? Bad idea!
     
  5. I tried your hack, and I gotta say ...

    I suck at it XD.

    Ok, serious time. It's really a different style of what I've seen around the internet, very original, though it's not MY style. I'm more of a classic sonic gameplay guy.

    But seems good, so keep it up!
     
  6. Sparks

    Sparks

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    I still can't understand why when someone criticizes the hack, it just leads to more debating, arguing and negativity. :psyduck:


    Curious question though, is t0ms0nic aware of his sprites used in this game? Not that he doesn't want people using them, I'm just curious of his response. :)
     
  7. Overlord

    Overlord

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    I assume they asked him first =P

    I can see why people are mentioning the electric spike floors so much, incidentally - I've made a habit of not rolling on ceilings for approaching 2 decades simply because pressing down while travelling on roofs to me mentally equals fall off roof in direction of gravity. I still can't bring myself to do it =P
     
  8. iojnekns

    iojnekns

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    The sheet in question requested t0ms0nic be credited if the sheet was used, which is why you can find him in the credits roll. If you know him though I'd love to get in touch. Can you hook us up?
     
  9. Sparks

    Sparks

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    <!--quoteo(post=370418:date=Nov 6 2009, 03:33 PM:name=iojnekns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (iojnekns @ Nov 6 2009, 03:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=370418">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The sheet in question requested t0ms0nic be credited if the sheet was used, which is why you can find him in the credits roll. If you know him though I'd love to get in touch. Can you hook us up?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Knew him once; know he doesn't mind the sheet being used, more or less because I remember when he was first making it (he was actually one of the first people to do style edit sprites with Genesis style). Last time I talked to him, I recall him saying the sheet was one of his worsts compared to his later work. Hence why I was curious. :v:
     
  10. Verse

    Verse

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    Well, I found it entertaining.

    Are there going to be updates in this thread?
     
  11. Xeric

    Xeric

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    <!--quoteo(post=370418:date=Nov 6 2009, 11:33 PM:name=iojnekns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (iojnekns @ Nov 6 2009, 11:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=370418">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The sheet in question requested t0ms0nic be credited if the sheet was used, which is why you can find him in the credits roll. If you know him though I'd love to get in touch. Can you hook us up?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Said sheet also requested credit to myself and Shine, because we completed it when t0m lost interest.

    I'll let that slip though~ :P
     
  12. GasparXR

    GasparXR

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    Haven't been here for a very long time, only every now and then just lurking. I kind of expected a hack like this to appear when I returned.

    Very nice hack. Not much to say right now since I didn't get to play it all that much, but the bosses were programmed very well (not to mention insane =P), the layouts and art are ass-kicking kickass and the music is excellent as well.
     
  13. muteKi

    muteKi

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    <!--quoteo(post=370313:date=Nov 6 2009, 01:17 PM:name=Ice Sonic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ice Sonic @ Nov 6 2009, 01:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=370313">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Speaking of Badniks, how the fuck are you supposed to know that you can destroy the security cameras?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Hmm, that's a tough one....how about jumping on them? That's like saying "how am I supposed to know that I can destroy the Relieves (MGZ, Sonic 3)"
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I'd equate them more with the laser barriers around the tubes in parts of act 2 in Launch Base Zone, myself.
     
  14. Jayextee

    Jayextee

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    I DONE MAKED GAMES.
    <!--quoteo(post=370786:date=Nov 7 2009, 11:12 PM:name=muteKi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (muteKi @ Nov 7 2009, 11:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=370786">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=370313:date=Nov 6 2009, 01:17 PM:name=Ice Sonic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ice Sonic @ Nov 6 2009, 01:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=370313">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Speaking of Badniks, how the fuck are you supposed to know that you can destroy the security cameras?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Hmm, that's a tough one....how about jumping on them? That's like saying "how am I supposed to know that I can destroy the Relieves (MGZ, Sonic 3)"
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I'd equate them more with the laser barriers around the tubes in parts of act 2 in Launch Base Zone, myself.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I do admit, the fact that my route was blocked, plus the Duke Nukem music gave it away for me -- the cameras seem to be a homage to their role in the 2D Duke Nukem games, notably the first.
     
  15. I'm really liking how this is. The high speed and the difficulty of the bosses is perfect.

    I can't see why people are complaning about the second boss crushing you though. It's not really that big a deal seeing as you have unlimited lives and just go back a little ways to the checkpoint. I would leave that how it is. A boss having a move that can kill instantly just adds more to the "hardcore" that I think this game is based off.

    The spindash bug thing dose need to be fixed though in my opinion >.>. I also noticed the second bosses name when you fight him needs to be changed.

    The music is awsome btw. Love all the Megaman music thats in there.
     
  16. Skyler

    Skyler

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    <!--quoteo(post=370313:date=Nov 6 2009, 01:17 PM:name=Ice Sonic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ice Sonic @ Nov 6 2009, 01:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=370313">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Speaking of Badniks, how the fuck are you supposed to know that you can destroy the security cameras?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Hmm, that's a tough one....how about jumping on them? That's like saying "how am I supposed to know that I can destroy the Relieves (MGZ, Sonic 3)"
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The relieves are right in front of your path. They encourage you to jump on them. The cameras, on the other hand, are out in the immediate distance.
     
  17. The Shad

    The Shad

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    <!--quoteo(post=371312:date=Nov 9 2009, 10:39 AM:name=Moonshadow Caz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Moonshadow Caz @ Nov 9 2009, 10:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=371312">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=370313:date=Nov 6 2009, 01:17 PM:name=Ice Sonic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ice Sonic @ Nov 6 2009, 01:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=370313">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Speaking of Badniks, how the fuck are you supposed to know that you can destroy the security cameras?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Hmm, that's a tough one....how about jumping on them? That's like saying "how am I supposed to know that I can destroy the Relieves (MGZ, Sonic 3)"
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The relieves are right in front of your path. They encourage you to jump on them. The cameras, on the other hand, are out in the immediate distance.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It's no different than those little machines you hit in Launch Base to change open doors. I can't be the only one who thought of that when I saw the cameras.
     
  18. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    After watching the Youtube video and reading about the extreme difficulty in the bosses, I gotta ask something... Is it really possible to finish them without getting hit once?

    I mean, that's one of the basics in videogame design. If you master a game, it must be possible to get through it without a single sign of failure.



    With that said... Those bosses look splendid, great work!
     
  19. Mr. Mash

    Mr. Mash

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    To be honest, I've found the metal knuckles fight in The S factor harder than the main boss in this hack.
     
  20. Icewarrior

    Icewarrior

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    <!--quoteo(post=371774:date=Nov 11 2009, 12:06 AM:name=Mr. Mash)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Mash @ Nov 11 2009, 12:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=371774">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To be honest, I've found the metal knuckles fight in The S factor harder than the main boss in this hack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yay because it's a more fair battle than the S factor one
     
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