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Sonic Before the Sequel Aftermath

Discussion in 'Fangaming Discussion' started by LakeFeperd, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. LakeFeperd

    LakeFeperd

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    Spark the electric jester
  2. P3DR0

    P3DR0

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    SONIC INFINITY
    Sweet. Downloading it right now. :3

    Lake, you're awesome.
     
  3. TheInvisibleSun

    TheInvisibleSun

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    Can't wait to play this for several hours try this out!

    Downloading Now

    EDIT:

    That Was Awesome. I beat it, but I still have to get all the 'Level Ups'. + - Still didn't upgrade the Rocket Shoes, so I figured there were more I didn't see (besides the one at the end of Metro Madness that I can't get).  

    I did find a bug though:

    -After going back-and-forth several times between the 1st and 2nd areas (Sunset Sun and Sunset Star, right?), I ended up continuously falling to my death upon entering Sunset Star (which had mis-arranged tiles instead of the pipe you had starting the area), a la S2 Hidden Palace. If I can replicate it, I can try and get a screenshot later.


    Thanks for the great time Lake, can't wait for ATS.
     
  4. LakeFeperd

    LakeFeperd

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    Thanks guys =)

    Anyway, anyone wants help me out with a mac port? I don't have a mac to test it out.
    This one has no cutscenes, only a save feature just like BTS'12.
     
  5. Tiller

    Tiller

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    Anything change from the prerelease version?
     
  6. LakeFeperd

    LakeFeperd

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    Not much really.
    just fixed some glitches you guys pointed out.
     
  7. SpaceyBat

    SpaceyBat

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    If you figure out to get a Mac port working, please let me know. :) It's one of my goals for Freedom Planet.

    So far, the best idea I can come up with is to get the Flash exporter for MMF2, export the game to Flash, and then use some kind of program that wraps the .swf file in a window.
     
  8. TheKazeblade

    TheKazeblade

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    Is it just play-testing? I have a Mac I can test it out on :)
     
  9. LakeFeperd

    LakeFeperd

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    @strife
    Well, actually, BTS'12 has a mac port, I think it was made by guess who.
    The only problem is that the cutscenes don't work anymore but I think the rest is fine, including the save system.
     
  10. Kampfer

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    I got this too, but it was upon trying to load a Tails game. In addition, after that, I lost my progress. (I lost my power ups and exp ups, but Tails mode and the gallery remained unlocked).

    In addition, there seems to be a left over from development. In Sunset Star, you can press certain letter keys (I believe they were Y, U, I, O, and P) to access power ups you have not already unlocked. But this is only in Sunset Star. I sequence broke into Lost Liquid using the leftover, but got stuck there since I had not legitimately unlocked sword yet.

    This includes the Modern Sonic Boost and some sort of Power Gloves power up. Before my data got wiped from the glitch in the first area, I tried finding those in each area (played the game a second time, essentially), but couldn't find them. Are they just very well hidden or dummied out power ups? In addition, if you do this as Tails, you transform into Sonic.

    Good work on the game. I nice little epilogue to BTS, and it was a fun diversion for the evening. I think you could develop a full fledged exploration game (Sonic based or not) if you wanted to.
     
  11. TheInvisibleSun

    TheInvisibleSun

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    I've also lost progress for Sonic's game and Tails' game has all of the gates already broken. Getting the Sword powerup as Tails normally also permanently changes you to Sonic.

    As for the code keys, they are:

    T (Rocket Shoes), Y (Normal), U (Sword), I (Modern Sonic/Boost), and O (Fighting Gloves)
     
  12. P3DR0

    P3DR0

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    Ok, just finished it and here are my thoughts on it:

    It looks great, the level design is suberb and it's a very interesting set-up for a Sonic game... But it have a lot of flaws, for example, in those games (Metroidvania) it's normal to have minimaps or at very least some special landmarks, so the player can navigate around and don't get lost. I can asure you that, everything that I found in the game was by pure luck since I barely knew where I was or where I needed to go, I just ran straight and explored. This could be easily avoided with a minimap, or at the very least some landmarks, like I said. It would also help a lot if the compass actually worked (pointing you in the direction of an objective instead of being pure cosmetic (I mean, it's a 2D sidescroller, I can tell where is left or right).

    The game was very short and I feel that it could've been something so much bigger if it had, not only a couple more stages but at very least some extra side-missions, like that bird that says "I'm Hungry" and you go and find him some food. I've also didn't felt inclined to destroy enemies since it doesn't even give me score points nor any exp whatsoever. Nor are they any challenge, so... Why kill 'em? I feel like they should give the player something like extra EXP for the weapon they use, besides the sword orbs that work like a big EXP boost, killing an enemy would give the player a little bit of experience points depending on the skill-set he's using. For example, using the default settings would increase Sonic's speed at leveling up, or give him the insta-shield, whatever.

    The boss Polem was pretty easy using a level 3 sword (jump+attack combo).

    Not saying that it is bad or something like that, don't get me wrong it is an awesome game and I had a lot of fun playing it. I just feel like it could've been so much more then it was, because it's an awesome and very interesting concept and translated really well for a Sonic game. But I can't shake this feeling of an wasted oportunity.
     
  13. LakeFeperd

    LakeFeperd

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    @About the glitch
    I guess I forgot to deactivate the debug group in that level... OPS! damn you mmf2!!!!11!!1
    anyway, you can't get those power ups in the game and they aren't really meant to be acceced, they are part of my next game along with a few new ones.


    @P3DR0
    the reson why I call it a metronic game is because I don't want people making comparisons between this and metroidvania.
    killing enemies in a sonic game serves a different purpose than metroidvania, in a sonic game they are just obstacles that are just a part of a big obstacle couse, you can either avoid or kill them.

    instead, you level up by exploring the stage, which is another core gameplay mechanic of a sonic game.

    but don't worry about this being a wasted oportunity, I'm making a whole full on sonic game based on this gameplay style.
    this is just to get people used to what they will see in the next one, which I'll probably announce after ATS gets released.
     
  14. TheInvisibleSun

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    Another nice touch I forgot to mention before, was the changing pause sign colors (it's a different color each time you pause). It seems like an insignificant detail, but it is a neat stylistic choice that is certainly notable.
     
  15. Greg the Cat

    Greg the Cat

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    Oh, I finally get to talk about the upgrades featured in the game? Good.


    The only one I liked were the high jump boots. The sword is awful. But their implementation together made me wish to be playing the usual Sonic game; here I shall elaborate:

    In Metroidvania games, once you obtain the weapon/upgrade/powerup you never have to switch between these. You have the option to press start usually and take a look at the upgrades grafted onto a diagram of the character's body with plenty of arrows and dialogue boxes describing what each thing does, but never do you switch between abilities in main gameplay, even though you may have the option to turn an ability off in say Super Metroid in case you have multiple extensions towards your blaster. In Megaman, the switch between powers is more of a standstill thing. Until Megaman X, and then you were given the buttons to switch these abilities on the fly, but also the chance to switch manually through the pause menu. In Metroid, you only switch between your bombs and missiles, but the other abilities are free to use anytime once you acquire them.

    When you're working on a Sonic game, there's a huge part that factors in here that is important to keep in mind and that is that you must keep your player in full control of the momentum of the situation, you aren't meant to break momentum because of an ability you acquired. The clunkiness to your abilities are not friendly towards this thought process and instead of being able to run full force and swing your sword right through each barrier, you come to a standstill to swing unless you power up but even then you still come to a full stop most of the time. And this is once you go through, having to stand still no less to do this and press the button that lets you switch over to the ability when he should have been perfectly capable to hold the sword and wear the boots, but I suppose that wouldn't have allowed you to hide the funny Modern Sonic Boost Ability and Knuckles Fists.

    Poor example of how to do Metronic. Sorry. I really wanted to like this. I thought you could do this better than this. And again... Why does Sonic need a sword? Why not an armored suit that amplifies his spin dash or jump so that he could bust through barriers with ease? It's just better that way.

    This didn't really do a thing for me when I first played it in my livestream and I still don't enjoy it even though I wanted this kind of thing to work. I'd touch on the compass and use of a map system but someone already covered that.

    Next time someone does Metronic (maybe you're thinking of doing another) take heed of what makes Metroidvania games good. This isn't it.
     
  16. If the sword worked while spinning to give an added reach of sorts, it would feel more like a sonic game. Just a spin jump with the sword would keep the flow better.

    The only other power I found on my play-through were the Rocket Boots, which are COOL AS HELL. I can see this opening a whole new can of worms on how to progress in stages. Would add replayability for sure.
     
  17. Crasher

    Crasher

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    These are my problems so far:

    • When you're running with the sword, you cannot swing your sword while moving. If you hit the attack button, you go to a stop and swing. This breaks the flow REALLY badly, and makes the sword feel clunky.
    • You can only swing once in the air. I guess it makes sense, but at least give us a combo for air-swings! It's pretty much useless in the air.
    • You should move forward just a bit with the sword, as enemies/you are sometimes thrown back. Also, it'd be useful for breaking the gates, as you must stop your combo and go foward to get the last one.
    • If you use the Rocket Boots in the air, you come down faster, as if the Rocket Boots are weighing you down while you use them. I feel like I should use them in the air, for a double jump, but I always miss the platform due to this.
    • It's incredibly easy to get lost. Even if it's just a map of the area and a dot/square where you are, it'd be helpful. Half the time I don't know where the entrance/exit is, and a minimap/map would be helpful.

    That's about it for now. It's a great game, I really like it. I'm enjoying it, despite the flaws it has.
     
  18. LakeFeperd

    LakeFeperd

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    thanks for the feedback guys.
    too bad it's too late to make big changes to the core engine.

    @Greg the Cat
    Again, the reason why I gave this the name "Metronic" was because I don't want to see people making comparisons between this and metroidvania.

    I'm not trying to make this game a game of any particular genre.

    but still, I see your point, too bad it's too late to turn back now =(
    A map system is added in a new game but not quite as people expect it to be and the sowrd seems a bit less of a pace breaker.
    it's not much different, but it's a little thing I think will make things much better.

    in the end, I'll just make the game with no worries, even if it's the worst game ever.
    I know I'll be a better game designer in the end.
     
  19. Yarharhar

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    I've been playing this on and off, some thoughts:

    1. The game closest to this one is not metroid, is in fact Wonderboy 3: The Dragon's Trap (One of the finest games in existence). While it doesn't have the whole RPG-esque armor/item system, it has the whole core exploration mechanic that is sectioned off by virtue of the player's current abilities. The player has a bunch of different forms with the same base gameplay, but abilities that really change how they play (one form can climb walls, one form can fly, one can do a huge arcing strike, one can swim, etc). If you haven't played Wonderboy 3, I recommend you try it.

    2. On that note, I like how the sword is essentially a 'heavy' character, while weaponless is 'speed' style.
    However, this is a sonic game, and I think what you consider 'basic gameplay' is off from what people expect. What I mean is that right now 'base gameplay' is considered a character that can jump. When he has 'sonic moves' equipped, he gains spindash/rundash/spinjump and becomes speed-type. When he has sword equipped he gains sword strikes/ability to break sword walls/sword wave/etc.
    I think the 'basic gameplay' should be Sonic's Sonic 1 moveset, at minimum (if not Sonic 2). This means, regardless of equipment/setup, Sonic has spinjump/spin attack, and probably rundash or spindash. Then the sword gives him sword waves, ability to break sword walls, etc on top of that, while perhaps equipmentless offers things like insta-shield and what not. Equipment should feel like it's adding power or gameplay, rather than exchanging it (That statement is completely opinion).

    3. Is there a save feature? I haven't run across yet if so. One thing to keep in mind about exploration-style games is that they tend to take much longer to play. As someone with lots of life-obligations, being able to put this down and pick it up again later would be *very* appreciated.
     
  20. Yarharhar

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    Ok, this is bugging me.

    I managed to get the "Most of the terrain missing" bug in sunset star, while I had the rocket shoes. With them, I was able to slow my descent enough/move myself enough to the right that I triggered a cutscene. It happens in some area that I normally can't get to in the level. In it, someone introduces themselves as Chrono. That's as far as I can get in the dialog before I end up falling off the screen and dieing.

    How do I get to this area in the game normally? It's driving me nuts! Who is this Chrono fellow? Was he a cut-character? A cut-cut scene!? Argh