Sonic Adventure DX (Preview) Discussion

Discussion in 'Prototype Discussion' started by Sazpaimon, Feb 24, 2008.

  1. Polygon Jim

    Polygon Jim

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    across town from Hinchy
    All the bitches.
    Well you use it in the same way as you would use the hex editor. Follow my guide, except replace the hex editing parts with that tool. The x, y, z coordinates instead of entering them in hex, would be entered into that program.

    It's more of jsut a simpler alternative to a hex editor for that.


    Anyway, we're getting a bit off topic I think.
     
  2. evilhamwizard

    evilhamwizard

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    Well anyway, as a way to bump the topic again...

    Even though this exists for every build of Sonic Adventure, it's much easier to do in this build because of no-clip.

    Do you remember when using the map jump feature ingame on this build that the Practice stages were listed like 6/7 times and each did something different?

    Here's some trivia as to why. The very first map that normally gets created is a test map. This game apparently had several, and I guess we all have a pretty nice idea of what they could be. According to the game, Stage00 is this "Practice Stage". In the list of stages, this was once a whole new series of maps for testing purposes. Later on in development however, the test maps were replaced with the Hedgehog Hammer minigame maps. I don't fully understand why they would do this, but my guess is that maybe the map itself was built from a test map from early on? Or maybe the size of the original test map made it easy to replace. I'm not too sure, but regardless, these were originally test maps.

    Now on to the fun part. Since they replaced the stages with Hedgehog Hammer, you'd guess that they'd leave something behind by mistake (as always). The funny thing is, they almost got away with it if it wasn't for one (maybe two) files:

    Set0000S.bin
    Set0001S.bin

    Here's a quick recap of what these filenames tell us. These are object placement set files, as indicated by Set at the begining of the file. The next two 00s beside the word Set indicate the "stage number". For example, 00 is the Practice stage, 01 is Emerald Coast, 02 is Windy Valley etcetc. The next two 00s as well as the 01 in the second file is used to either indicate the act or to show that this is an alternate set(it's pretty rare to have alternate sets for one act for one character in Sonic Adventure, so this is probably false). Already, we can see that there is something odd going on since there's only one Hedgehog Hammer map in the game. And finally, the S at the end indicates the player the set is intended for. For reference, S = Sonic, K = Knuckles, M = Tails, A = Amy, B = Big, E = Gamma.

    So from looking at these files, these are both intended for Sonic.

    So now you're probably wondering, "what does the layout look like"? Well...

    <img src="http://imgur.com/0k6ZC.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    As you can see above, we see ring placement for a very small loop de loop! This, and the next image are from Set0000S.bin.

    <img src="http://imgur.com/lui4y.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    What the hell is this?

    <img src="http://imgur.com/vwbXs.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    A face? (same as one above but at different angle)

    Besides the fact that there is no hedgehog hammer machine loaded on the map with Sonic (along with no camera collision boxes either), these two ring formations seem to be the only thing loaded on the map. It's a very small set file, afterall. But who knows if there's something else on the map as well. To gain access to this, all you have to do is load Practice 1 from the Scene select X debug with Sonic. Then no clip through the walls by opening the SET Program, closing out of the program, and moving Sonic forward from the starting point. The object clipping can be annoying, so you have to travel a little bit to see each formation individually. Is this all there is? Maybe not, but it's hard to look around in game. Maybe someone else can go investigate...

    Now what about Set0001S.bin? Well judging by my hex editor...nothing. Nothing except for the 01 after the 3rd byte. I think by loading Practice 2 with the Scene selector with Sonic, all you get is a ring and Sonic falling endlessly to his death. So there's nothing to be excited about for this one, if it isn't the Set file that's being loaded during the game at that moment.

    While this is a very small thing, it's not too interesting. But, it does tell us just a little bit about what the first map ever designed into the game might've had if it were only playable. But from the look of things, we'd have to go back preeeety far into the development cycle to get to see it fully rendered.

    A man can dream though...
     
  3. Sik

    Sik

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    being an asshole =P
    Could it be for testing the lightdash?
     
  4. evilhamwizard

    evilhamwizard

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    <!--quoteo(post=488690:date=Aug 9 2010, 06:02 AM:name=Sik)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sik @ Aug 9 2010, 06:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=488690"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Could it be for testing the lightdash?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Not sure if it's likely. From the screenshots, the media, the videos etc - it seems that the lightdash was added late in development. Definately after Hedgehog Hammer was put in the game. This might be further evidenced by the fact that there are few instances where you *need* to use the lightdash to advance throughout the game.

    Since this goes for the very first test map or whatever, and since that Jam-like spring was found yesterday, I put them together and formed the idea that this must've been from something while Sonic Adventure looked a lot like Sonic Jam (if that ever happened during the course of it's development history). I mean, the ring formation that forms the loop de loop is small as hell, and I don't even recall there being rings on any of the loop de loops in the final game (I might be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure...).
     
  5. MainMemory

    MainMemory

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    <!--quoteo(post=488687:date=Aug 9 2010, 04:44 AM:name=evilhamwizard)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (evilhamwizard @ Aug 9 2010, 04:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=488687"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well anyway, as a way to bump the topic again...

    Even though this exists for every build of Sonic Adventure, it's much easier to do in this build because of no-clip.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Actually, every build of Adventure has noclip, it's an action for each character except Tails.

    But, I can't find either of those files in my copy of SADXPC (US). I did find them in my copy of the dreamcast version.

    And aside from the rings, there are also objects that are not in the object list (which are ignored by the game, but crash SADXLVL/SETedit >_>)!

    Edit: Loading it in Emerald Coast in SADXLVL shows three jump panels and one of each type of collision object (cube, cylinder, sphere), with all the scale values set to 0.

    Edit2: Also, you missed some in your description of which SET files are for what character. L is for Super Sonic's story, and there are two unused identifiers, EG and TI, which would seem to refer to Eggman and Tikal. And the second set of digits are the act number. More info: <a href="http://info.sonicretro.org/SCHG:Sonic Adventure/Object Editing" target="_blank" style="background: url(http://info.sonicretro.org/images/5/50/Reticon.png) right no-repeat; padding-right: 20px; border-bottom: 1px dotted #3366BB; color: #3366BB; cursor:pointer; text-decoration:none;" class="wiki">SCHG:Sonic Adventure/Object Editing</a>.
     
  6. evilhamwizard

    evilhamwizard

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    <!--quoteo(post=488803:date=Aug 9 2010, 10:03 AM:name=MainMemory)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MainMemory @ Aug 9 2010, 10:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=488803"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=488687:date=Aug 9 2010, 04:44 AM:name=evilhamwizard)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (evilhamwizard @ Aug 9 2010, 04:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=488687"><img src="public/style_images/retro/snapback.png"></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well anyway, as a way to bump the topic again...

    Even though this exists for every build of Sonic Adventure, it's much easier to do in this build because of no-clip.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Actually, every build of Adventure has noclip, it's an action for each character except Tails.

    But, I can't find either of those files in my copy of SADXPC (US). I did find them in my copy of the dreamcast version.

    And aside from the rings, there are also objects that are not in the object list (which are ignored by the game, but crash SADXLVL/SETedit >_>)!

    Edit: Loading it in Emerald Coast in SADXLVL shows three jump panels and one of each type of collision object (cube, cylinder, sphere), with all the scale values set to 0.

    Edit2: Also, you missed some in your description of which SET files are for what character. L is for Super Sonic's story, and there are two unused identifiers, EG and TI, which would seem to refer to Eggman and Tikal. And the second set of digits are the act number. More info: <a href="http://info.sonicretro.org/SCHG:Sonic Adventure/Object Editing" target="_blank" style="background: url(http://info.sonicretro.org/images/5/50/Reticon.png) right no-repeat; padding-right: 20px; border-bottom: 1px dotted #3366BB; color: #3366BB; cursor:pointer; text-decoration:none;" class="wiki">SCHG:Sonic Adventure/Object Editing</a>.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Pretty neat stuff there, do you have a picture of what it looks like in Emerald Coast?

    In this build there bigger .rel files (of course we know why this is), but when I looked at each one, I saw that it was mostly data rather than strings. I wonder if they accidentally compiled something somewhere that has more unused data in it.
     
  7. MainMemory

    MainMemory

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    <img src="http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx282/sonicmike2/set0000s-ec.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
    Yes, one of them is upside down.

    As for the rel files containing mostly data, that's because they hold all the code and data for each level (at least if they're the same thing as the Dreamcast's STGxx.BIN files). When I looked at the only uncompressed rel file (stg00.rel) from the final version, it looked like the same level geometry data was there as the PC version (byteswapped of course), but all the pointers were 0.

    Edit: and the same seems to apply to stg01D.rel from the preview, I can find model data, but no pointers.
     
  8. evilhamwizard

    evilhamwizard

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    Huge fucking find:

    <img src="http://imgur.com/PdOdT.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Only in the Review with Controller 3...maybe.

    I need <b>SAZ</b> will power to document all its features.
     
  9. MainMemory

    MainMemory

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    And I can't even find the string "MOUTH TEX" anywhere in the PC version.
     
  10. MainMemory

    MainMemory

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    Speaking of stuff that's left in the game, there is this set of path data in SADXPC, assigned to level 0, act 2:
    <img src="http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx282/sonicmike2/0002pathdata.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
     
  11. PicklePower

    PicklePower

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    Do either of those paths look like they might fit into this level?
    <img src="http://i33.tinypic.com/10rva55.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /><img src="http://i36.tinypic.com/2lm9vdi.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
     
  12. MainMemory

    MainMemory

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    There are four paths there, but it would be difficult to tell if they fit into a level unless you actually look at them on top of a model.
     
  13. flarn2006

    flarn2006

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    Does anyone know how to use the <img src="http://info.sonicretro.org/images/f/fb/Ybtn.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /> button to change position/rotation/scale without opening the <img src="http://info.sonicretro.org/images/f/fb/Ybtn.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /> debug menu?

    Also, I think I figured out what Multi is for. In Multi mode, you can place a line of multiple objects. I'm not on my main computer right now, and I can't remember the controls, but play around with holding <img src="http://info.sonicretro.org/images/b/b8/Start.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /> and pressing different buttons/the d-pad. Can't figure out how to place it though.

    Also, some levels just appear black (such as AL_RACE other than act 00) except when they would normally be loaded by the game. Anybody know how to fix this?

    Finally, if we can't find DebugAssistant.exe, do you maybe think someone (read: I don't know how) could figure out how to make a program that does the same thing? Maybe as a plugin for Dolphin or something?
     
  14. evilhamwizard

    evilhamwizard

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    Super bump, but I really had no idea where to post these pictures. Not hacking related, not directly coming from the Autodemo, not thread worthy, and coming from the object debugger from this prototype.

    As I said here, there are a ton of unused objects for Sky Chase that don't make a lot of sense. Besides the Dragon (BOSS), there are objects for sofas, TVs, cabinets, paintings, etc. Here are pictures of each:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Obviously these aren't used at all (I double checked with the stage's set file). Are these models used anywhere? Maybe somewhere on the Egg Carrier or in some building in Station Square?
     
  15. MainMemory

    MainMemory

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    A preliminary examination of the object list in SADXPC reveals that none of the objects in Sky Chase (aside from the ring of course) are referenced anywhere else. I could attempt to examine all the models to see if they're reused but that would take a bit longer.
     
  16. MainMemory

    MainMemory

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    A closer inspection of the code for some of the objects tells me a few things. First off, they share their main routine, so they all have more or less the same behavior (one of the variables in the objects' data is set to a value indicating a subtype of object). Secondly, they're more complex than an object that just displays a model or a simple solid object. I think they're meant to be targets. Either at one point you were meant to go through the Egg Carrier or they were sitting on top of it.
     
  17. Crasher

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    Stupid speculation, but maybe they were going to be obstacles that you would either have to avoid or shoot, so they don't damage the Tornado.

    So, the Egg Carrier opens up a cargo bay, and then you have to dodge items like sofas etc.
     
  18. MainMemory

    MainMemory

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    I thought so too, but there's nothing in their code for motion. It looks like they're meant to be stationary targets.
     
  19. Glaber

    Glaber

    Has Beaten Sonic Genesis for GBA Oldbie
    if they were meant to move, it might be possible that they decided against it after they already finished the models and figured it would be too much hassle to add the spots they would come from.

    Or Gamma was suppose to be able to shot them in some un-made map.
     
  20. evilhamwizard

    evilhamwizard

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    No idea where else I could post this, but it's nice info for those interested.

    As you might be aware, the GC SADX port can sometimes run at an inconsistent framerate even though it usually runs at 60 frames all the time. There are rare moments where the game can go down to 30 for brief moments at odd places (such as running up the first ramp in Emerald Coast). This isn't exclusive to this prototype. Dolphin even emulates these slowdowns as well.

    However if you'd like to run the game in Dolphin without the frame rate issues that occur even when running on actual hardware, try using the Ishiiruka Dolphin versions. You can overclock the GC CPU to over double the stock clockrate which can help give you a better experience. You can also prevent some hitching by using the Async Shader option. These features aren't available under the normal development versions of Dolphin as of right now, but I highly recommend trying it out. In this case, I eliminated pretty much all slow down in this version by changing the clock rate from 100% (default) to 200%.

    Also, I'm not sure if this was mentioned before. The region for this prototype is PAL, but you can easily change it to NTSC by using a hex editor to change 0x3 from 53 to 4A. This way you can play the prototype in 60fps rather than 50.