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Sonic 4.

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Polygon Jim, Oct 12, 2010.

  1. Solaris Paradox

    Solaris Paradox

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    I'm working on working up the willpower to work on learning how to make my own Sonic fangames. Not quite there yet.
    <!--quoteo(post=518305:date=Oct 16 2010, 07:32 PM:name=Polygon Jim)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Polygon Jim @ Oct 16 2010, 07:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518305">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Didn't say it was, but those are all stupid and need to get the fuck out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Agreed. Except the convex curves, which bug me only on the level where I prefer more variety in my slope formations and frankly, the convex ones sometimes seem to be the ONLY slopes in the game.

    And Splash Hill is too flat most of the time. The slopes feel absurdly artificial compared to Green Hill, Emerald Hill, or Angel Island. I'm not sure how much of that is an optical illusion cast by the plastic grass or how much of it is just the slope formations looking a bit too "stock," but there it is.

    <!--quoteo(post=518297:date=Oct 16 2010, 07:19 PM:name=Solaris Paradox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Solaris Paradox @ Oct 16 2010, 07:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518297">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not saying 5000000000 dashpads, but make it the crazy stage with a higher speed element, but still have platforming, like Chemical Plant did. The dashpads don't fit in any other stage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Alright, I see your point, but beyond changing what the slope angles look like, I don't see how that would change the feel of the level in the slightest. More straight downhill sections instead of roundish downhill sections? Or the same except with "uphill" where "downhill" used to be? I assume the speedboosters would pack more of a kick, at least, but...

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I shouldn't have to. All it does it break the flow of the game, a level shouldn't be based on making random ass ramps that just force you to loose all forward momentum unless you jump over it. A few of them is fine, but ones like that are just stupid placement.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Alternately, you can roll off the ramp, bop a couple badniks, and keep on moving. <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>I assume "uncurling" is on your hit list, no?</span>

    Would you prefer a random-ass rock or flat ledge that has just the one function of forcing you to jump? OH, WAIT. Green Hill did that. And the ramp.

    So I really don't understand what the problem is. If there's one gripe I have with that ramp, it's that the ramp itself is a bit too tall. Jumping when I see it doesn't always clear the ramp.
     
  2. Azookara

    Azookara

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    Hey Jim, whenever you edit the art to the stages, what are you going to change? Just the shading, just the color scheme, or just a complete rehaul?
     
  3. VB.NET

    VB.NET

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    Are you planning to change Sonic's mid-air acceleration when jumping out of a Spin Dash or roll? Also, playing this game with a FAST Spin Dash would be amazing! :thumbsup:
     
  4. Solaris Paradox

    Solaris Paradox

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    On my butt in front of the computer. Where else?
    I'm working on working up the willpower to work on learning how to make my own Sonic fangames. Not quite there yet.
    <!--quoteo(post=518312:date=Oct 16 2010, 07:44 PM:name=VB.NET)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VB.NET @ Oct 16 2010, 07:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518312">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are you planning to change Sonic's mid-air acceleration when jumping out of a Spin Dash or roll? Also, playing this game with a FAST Spin Dash would be amazing! :thumbsup:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The Spin Dash is fast. All Jim needs to fix is the goddamn control change that forces you to hold forward to keep your roll speed going. And the rolling physics in general. But the point is, holding forward on the d-pad makes the Spin Dash pretty useful. It's rolling in general that sucks.
     
  5. VB.NET

    VB.NET

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    <!--quoteo(post=518314:date=Oct 17 2010, 10:46 AM:name=Solaris Paradox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Solaris Paradox @ Oct 17 2010, 10:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518314">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=518312:date=Oct 16 2010, 07:44 PM:name=VB.NET)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VB.NET @ Oct 16 2010, 07:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518312">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are you planning to change Sonic's mid-air acceleration when jumping out of a Spin Dash or roll? Also, playing this game with a FAST Spin Dash would be amazing! :thumbsup:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The Spin Dash is fast. All Jim needs to fix is the goddamn control change that forces you to hold forward to keep your roll speed going. And the rolling physics in general. But the point is, holding forward on the d-pad makes the Spin Dash pretty useful. It's rolling in general that sucks.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I've got the 360 version and I've tried charging a full speed Spin Dash before a loop AND holding right and it's still slow compared to the classics in my opinion. It's probably just the friction, Spin Dashing on flat surfaces is decent.
     
  6. Solaris Paradox

    Solaris Paradox

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    <!--quoteo(post=518316:date=Oct 16 2010, 07:49 PM:name=VB.NET)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VB.NET @ Oct 16 2010, 07:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518316">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've got the 360 version and I've tried charging a full speed Spin Dash before a loop AND holding right and it's still slow compared to the classics in my opinion. It's probably just the friction, Spin Dashing on flat surfaces is decent.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Rolling physics on curved surfaces don't seem to work properly in general, actually, although on straight downhill inclines you will get some speed gain that exceeds Sonic's running-speed cap (oh yeah, there's a running speed cap... Jim, get the shotgun...).

    It IS slower than the classics, mind you. It's not "slow," just "slower."
     
  7. Polygon Jim

    Polygon Jim

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    <!--quoteo(post=518311:date=Oct 16 2010, 07:44 PM:name=Azukara)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Azukara @ Oct 16 2010, 07:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518311">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hey Jim, whenever you edit the art to the stages, what are you going to change? Just the shading, just the color scheme, or just a complete rehaul?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    So many questions from people jsadjsksad.


    Before I even answer any more I would like to say not to get your hopes up of me finishing this. Look at my project history. I have never finished a single project before. Though if Endri does manage to make a full level editor the chances of me finished are much higher.


    But anyway for art, I'll be removing all cell shading, and redoing the level art to not be noise filter + shine. I'll still be keeping a similar idea to what Dimps did, so it will still have all the stages looking like rip offs, just I plan on doing it better.



    [​IMG]


    This is my main problem with the art by the way. Why the fuck is there walls coming out of walls, that are coming out of more walls. asgjdsadasd
     
  8. VB.NET

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    Fair point Solaris Paradox. :)

    In regards to the speed cap, maybe Dimps was trying to imitate Sonic 1 for instant success! :specialed:
     
  9. Solaris Paradox

    Solaris Paradox

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    On my butt in front of the computer. Where else?
    I'm working on working up the willpower to work on learning how to make my own Sonic fangames. Not quite there yet.
    <!--quoteo(post=518318:date=Oct 16 2010, 07:54 PM:name=Polygon Jim)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Polygon Jim @ Oct 16 2010, 07:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518318">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But anyway for art, I'll be removing all cell shading, and redoing the level art to not be noise filter + shine. I'll still be keeping a similar idea to what Dimps did, so it will still have all the stages looking like rip offs, just I plan on doing it better.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    On the subject of cell-shading, I would just like to register that I think Sonic looks a lot better in the PS3 version on account of not being stupidly shiny... so my idea of how the models should look is somewhere in that direction. Just sayin'.
     
  10. Covarr

    Covarr

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    <!--quoteo(post=518321:date=Oct 16 2010, 04:56 PM:name=Solaris Paradox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Solaris Paradox @ Oct 16 2010, 04:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518321">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=518318:date=Oct 16 2010, 07:54 PM:name=Polygon Jim)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Polygon Jim @ Oct 16 2010, 07:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518318">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But anyway for art, I'll be removing all cell shading, and redoing the level art to not be noise filter + shine. I'll still be keeping a similar idea to what Dimps did, so it will still have all the stages looking like rip offs, just I plan on doing it better.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    On the subject of cell-shading, I would just like to register that I think Sonic looks a lot better in the PS3 version on account of not being stupidly shiny... so my idea idea of how the models should look is somewhere in that direction. Just sayin'.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Your ideas and everyone else's. Sonic has never looked good Shiny, that's a large part of the reason people hate Sonic Adventure DX.
     
  11. VB.NET

    VB.NET

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    <!--quoteo(post=518321:date=Oct 17 2010, 10:56 AM:name=Solaris Paradox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Solaris Paradox @ Oct 17 2010, 10:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518321">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=518318:date=Oct 16 2010, 07:54 PM:name=Polygon Jim)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Polygon Jim @ Oct 16 2010, 07:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518318">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But anyway for art, I'll be removing all cell shading, and redoing the level art to not be noise filter + shine. I'll still be keeping a similar idea to what Dimps did, so it will still have all the stages looking like rip offs, just I plan on doing it better.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    On the subject of cell-shading, I would just like to register that I think Sonic looks a lot better in the PS3 version on account of not being stupidly shiny... so my idea idea of how the models should look is somewhere in that direction. Just sayin'.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    And to think they might be developing a sequel to THIS game...
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    <!--quoteo(post=518297:date=Oct 16 2010, 03:19 PM:name=Solaris Paradox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Solaris Paradox @ Oct 16 2010, 03:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518297">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=518294:date=Oct 16 2010, 07:10 PM:name=Dark Sonic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dark Sonic @ Oct 16 2010, 07:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518294">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->While you're at it can you remove the stupid subtitles the levels have. I thought that was one of the most pointless things they added.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    ...

    ...

    ...

    Why does this even matter?!
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It doesn't. It just seems stupid. And I'd imagine it would take little effort to remove them. I'm not saying make this top priority just if he gets around to it. Plus all the important problems have been addressed. I'd just be repeating people if I brought it up again.
     
  13. StephenUK

    StephenUK

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    <!--quoteo(post=518292:date=Oct 17 2010, 12:08 AM:name=Polygon Jim)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Polygon Jim @ Oct 17 2010, 12:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518292">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...like the very beginning of Splash Hill before they decide to fuck it up right before the bridge by making a ramp for no fucking reason.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You mean like this:

    [​IMG]

    You can't really complain about Dimps doing that, Sonic Team / STI beat them to it. They were just learning from the best.
     
  14. <!--quoteo(post=517382:date=Oct 14 2010, 02:42 PM:name=Irixion)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Irixion @ Oct 14 2010, 02:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=517382">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Really? I remember editing a GH3 ISO to enable autobot and it worked on my non JTAG'd 360. I haven't used it online and I'm not banned. :s<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    He's talking about content that's signed, it's very possible that to enable your hack a file other than the signed XEX was modified. That's how I did all my DOA4 hacking on a non-jtagged system. Of course that thing died and I just recently gotten ahold of a jtagged falcon unit.

    Edit: Was going through this thread in order on my iPod and hadn't realized several people had responded to you already.
     
  15. Polygon Jim

    Polygon Jim

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    <!--quoteo(post=518336:date=Oct 16 2010, 08:41 PM:name=StephenUK)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (StephenUK @ Oct 16 2010, 08:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518336">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=518292:date=Oct 17 2010, 12:08 AM:name=Polygon Jim)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Polygon Jim @ Oct 17 2010, 12:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518292">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...like the very beginning of Splash Hill before they decide to fuck it up right before the bridge by making a ramp for no fucking reason.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You mean like this:

    [​IMG]

    You can't really complain about Dimps doing that, Sonic Team / STI beat them to it. They were just learning from the best.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->



    The S4 one is just much more annoying because it shoots you up at a straight 90 degree angle, the S2 ones let you keep moving somewhat.
     
  16. Solaris Paradox

    Solaris Paradox

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    I'm working on working up the willpower to work on learning how to make my own Sonic fangames. Not quite there yet.
    <!--quoteo(post=518344:date=Oct 16 2010, 09:09 PM:name=Polygon Jim)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Polygon Jim @ Oct 16 2010, 09:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518344">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The S4 one is just much more annoying because it shoots you up at a straight 90 degree angle, the S2 ones let you keep moving somewhat.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That and, like I said, the Sonic 4 ramp is a bit too tall.

    Keep the ramp, just change its shape and size to make it more functionally pleasing.
     
  17. StephenUK

    StephenUK

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    <!--quoteo(post=518344:date=Oct 17 2010, 02:09 AM:name=Polygon Jim)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Polygon Jim @ Oct 17 2010, 02:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518344">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=518336:date=Oct 16 2010, 08:41 PM:name=StephenUK)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (StephenUK @ Oct 16 2010, 08:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518336">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=518292:date=Oct 17 2010, 12:08 AM:name=Polygon Jim)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Polygon Jim @ Oct 17 2010, 12:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518292">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...like the very beginning of Splash Hill before they decide to fuck it up right before the bridge by making a ramp for no fucking reason.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You mean like this:

    [​IMG]

    You can't really complain about Dimps doing that, Sonic Team / STI beat them to it. They were just learning from the best.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->



    The S4 one is just much more annoying because it shoots you up at a straight 90 degree angle, the S2 ones let you keep moving somewhat.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Fair enough, valid point. If the physics were tweaked to allow more air control, then I don't think the ramp would be too much of an issue. It's more the fact that you pretty much go straight up and down with little horizontal movement which makes it a poor addition.
     
  18. DimensionWarped

    DimensionWarped

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    <!--quoteo(post=518251:date=Oct 16 2010, 04:38 PM:name=Hez)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hez @ Oct 16 2010, 04:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=518251">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=517999:date=Oct 15 2010, 07:21 PM:name=Mel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mel @ Oct 15 2010, 07:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=517999">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=517962:date=Oct 15 2010, 06:15 PM:name=Polygon Jim)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Polygon Jim @ Oct 15 2010, 06:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=517962">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->%99.9999999 sure that's just a bad Photoshop bros.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The Shadow image? Yeah that was kinda the point :rolleyes:

    I do hope something like that can be done in the future however.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I seriously fucking love how we bitched about the new characters and green eyed sonic, yet you fucks still say shit like this. Especially when they tried so hard to please us by not putting any of these characters in. This why we get the steamy piles of shit we do.

    On topic, another thing that really bugs me is when you're super sonic and you get a shield, it shows up...
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Personally I never cared for the whole 'Sonic should be on his own' camp and I loved playing Tails and Knuckles in S3K, so I can appreciate people wanting to play other characters in general... as long as it's an option and not some necessary thing.


    I've always believed that what was holding the series back at least in the 2D realm was mostly shitty level design, and Sonic 4 is at least a few steps above the rest in that category... even if the physics are crap.

    Bottom line though, you can't just say 'we bitched...' as though there is some single unifying opinion held by everyone here or there. Even among like-minded individuals, the desires for all the little things in this franchise vary immensely.
     
  19. LockOnRommy11

    LockOnRommy11

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    I'd like to ask if there's anything within the game's code or data that suggests if and how future games will work with Sonic 4; Episode 1? Will they lock on? Will they just reference certain information from one or the other?
     
  20. Aerosol

    Aerosol

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    I think Jim mentioned on another thread that lock-on might actually be impossible after all, due to it being impossible for WiiWare games to interact with each other. I could be wrong, though, and it'd be better for him to explain it.